Amie

I would have to be familiar with the concept of whatever I would find next in my closet to *not* believe in it. Otherwise if someone would ask me if I believed in "xygjdoirh" I would have to say "I don't know" not "no I dont believe" To form an opinion I would have to know some definition of some sort.

Goliath

Amie,

Incorrect. At any given point in time, you either believe that a xygjdoirh exists or you do not believe that a xygjdoirh exists.

Again, you do not need to know what a xygjdoirh is to not believe that a xygjdoirh exists.

Please, pay attention!

Sincerely,

Goliath

(editud cuz me not gotteren such gooder grammur)

Amie

I must admit I am rather surprised to hear some say that have no faith in anything, I have never heard anyone say none at all whatsoever...Its interesting...

Amie

Goliath I am paying attention. I just do not think like you. COPE!

Goliath

Amie,

What's so surprising about it? Having no faith is an incredibly simple thing. What surprises me is that so many people continue to desperately hold onto their faith.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Goliath

Amie,

Then you're aware that there is a difference between saying "I do not believe that X exists," and "I believe that X does not exist."? Good! Your posts seemed to indicate otherwise.

Not only that, but your thinking is incorrect when you assert that a definition of a thing is necessary for not believing that said thing exists.

Grumpy, are we? Do you need a nap?



Sincerely,

Goliath

Amie

Goliath I just want you to know I think you are condescending and rude. I really dont have anything else to say to you.

Goliath

Amie,

If you are going to continue to act like a whiny child, I will have no problem with continuing to treat you like one.

Sincerely,

Goliath

(edited to add "are going to continue to")

SanDiegoAtheist

Amie - I think this has to do with the difference in the way atheists view the meanings of the words 'faith' and 'belief' versus theists.

In general, theists use the two words pretty much interchangably. Nontheists tend to draw a more strict line between the two words. My own personal reason for drawing such a distinction between the two words actually arises out of an apologetic I frequently see used by theists as an argument for 'faith' - the old analogy between having 'faith' that your parents love you and having 'faith' that God is there and loves you.

I 'believe' that my parents love me, because I have ample evidence, both of the physical variety (they did, in fact, put up with me for 16+ years of essentially freeloading heh), and experiential - and unlike the experiential claims of theists, my experiences can in fact be checked against the experiences of other people who do NOT have a stake in the question of whether or not my parents love me (as an example, I could ask someone who has seen them behave in a 'loving' way towards me whether in fact they HAD in fact seen that act).

I do not have 'faith' that my parents love me, because to most nontheists, 'faith' implies belief without evidence that can be corroborated by more neutral parties. I do not need such 'faith', as I have ample evidence to base my 'belief' on.

Technically, under at least one dictionary definition of the term, my 'belief' that my parents love me would qualify as 'faith'. However, I, and most nontheists, do not use the term 'faith' under that definition, because it tends to lead to confusion when discussing issues like this with theists (it leads to the apologetic above amongst other things, which is terribly annoying for the nontheist to have to demonstrate false for the umpteenth time).

"Faith" to most of the nontheists on this board, is used in a very narrowly defined sense - the sense of 'belief without tangible or highly corroborated evidence'.

In that sense, I, and many other nontheists, do in fact maintain that we do not have 'faith' in anything. We strive to place our 'beliefs' in that which can be demonstrated and shown to be accurately in line with what actually IS in reality.

Cheers,

The San Diego Atheist

Amie

Hi SanDiego Atheist I think you are right about this...and thank you for helping me understand the differences between the two, that as you said are often used interchangably by some.