Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jat · 06-30-2003, 03:14 AM

Originally posted by Loren Pechtel

It's a proxy war between Israel and the Arabs.

Proxy war? When was this officially declared?

Only to those who support terrorism.

Like you do with Israel.

Jat · 06-30-2003, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loren Pechtel
The problem with the right of return is the *NUMBER* of people involved. Israel is a democracy--granting the right of return would suddenly flip power to those very hostile to the Jews. Disaster.

Israel is hardly a democracy. It is more like a theocracy. And a theocracy can not allow a differing belief system to have any power at all.

East Germany called itself Democratic. The former USSR had so-called democratic elections, and so did Iraq under Saddam. Were these places a democracy, no they weren't.

slept2long · 06-30-2003, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loren Pechtel

Yeah--peacekeepers aren't very good at keeping the peace against organized groups.

I guess we need special forces then.

Quote:

Of course the peacekeepers left. They aren't armed for conflict at that level.

I don't think that was the only reason. I am sure a lack of interest in dealing with this played a part.

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The problem is the ballot box.

Specifically what?

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I rather suspect they have something like that in mind to try to negotiate if the current peace process actually goes anywhere.

I hope they do. But seeing as the road map doesn't require it I am not very enthusiastic about the possibilities.

contracycle · 06-30-2003, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loren Pechtel
The problem with the right of return is the *NUMBER* of people involved. Israel is a democracy--granting the right of return would suddenly flip power to those very hostile to the Jews. Disaster.

The same argument was much discussed in apartheid south africa.

Loren Pechtel · 06-30-2003, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jat
Originally posted by Loren Pechtel

It's a proxy war between Israel and the Arabs.

Proxy war? When was this officially declared?

And a war doesn't exist if it's not declared?!

Loren Pechtel · 06-30-2003, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jat
Israel is hardly a democracy. It is more like a theocracy. And a theocracy can not allow a differing belief system to have any power at all.

East Germany called itself Democratic. The former USSR had so-called democratic elections, and so did Iraq under Saddam. Were these places a democracy, no they weren't.

Israel *IS* a democracy. People vote for the candidates they want.

Sure, the terrorists can't field candidates but we have enough trouble with stealth candidates here--the outcome is quite predictable.

Loren Pechtel · 06-30-2003, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by slept2long

Specifically what?

What's so hard to understand about the concept? What happens when the majority of voters suddenly wants to see the Jews dead?

Loren Pechtel · 06-30-2003, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by contracycle
The same argument was much discussed in apartheid south africa.

There isn't anywhere near the hostility there. Besides, look at Zimbabwe. The whites didn't end up dead but they had basically all their wealth taken.

Jat · 07-01-2003, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loren Pechtel
And a war doesn't exist if it's not declared?!

If not than it is just fighting.

Jat · 07-01-2003, 03:29 AM

Originally posted by Loren Pechtel

Israel *IS* a democracy. People vote for the candidates they want.

That is the claim of Iraq as well. Saddam got 99% of the vote.

Sure, the terrorists can't field candidates but we have enough trouble with stealth candidates here--the outcome is quite predictable.

Here? You're an Israeli? That explains your responses. You believe the official line fed to you.

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06-30-2003, 03:14 AM	#261
Jat Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 1,311	Originally posted by Loren Pechtel It's a proxy war between Israel and the Arabs. Proxy war? When was this officially declared? Only to those who support terrorism. Like you do with Israel.

07-01-2003, 03:29 AM	#270
Jat Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 1,311	Originally posted by Loren Pechtel *Israel IS* a democracy. People vote for the candidates they want. That is the claim of Iraq as well. Saddam got 99% of the vote. Sure, the terrorists can't field candidates but we have enough trouble with stealth candidates here--the outcome is quite predictable.** Here? You're an Israeli? That explains your responses. You believe the official line fed to you.

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