Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 07-23-2003, 03:29 PM

Quote:

. . .

Disaster Spiritual Care Services intends to screen would-be chaplains, including those recommended by religious denominations, to make sure they are willing to offer spiritual care to people of all faiths � or those who have none. Chaplains who pass will be trained in disaster relief, entered into a database and given ID cards.

It remains to be seen who will be rejected and whether religious freedom issues will be raised.

At Ground Zero, experienced chaplains in hardhats mixed with ministers who warned of the need for salvation and spontaneously prayed for people without regard to their religious beliefs.

The Church of Scientology had dozens of "volunteer ministers" on hand to offer counseling, and their involvement was criticized by the mental health establishment. It is unclear whether Scientologists can meet Disaster Spiritual Care Services' standards, which will likely ask that chaplains be prepared to refer people for psychological services. Scientology rejects traditional mental health treatment.

. . .

The Rev. John Hall, an Orthodox Christian priest from Manhattan who is associate director of Disaster Spiritual Care Services, said that chaplains at disaster sites have to be prepared to counsel people of all backgrounds, including nonbelievers facing profound spiritual crises.

"When we screen people, we ask questions � theological, some sociological, some posed by victims to chaplains," Hall said. "There are wrong answers. Why did God allow the planes to hit the World Trade Center? Saying we don't know is one good answer. But saying that the people in there were sinners is not what we want. That will get you shown the door."

More than 100 chaplains are already seeking certification, Hall said.

Patrick Korten, a spokesman for the Beckett Fund for Religious Liberty, an agency that defends religious expression, said that government already screens chaplains for prisons and the military. Doing the same for disaster sites should work, he said, if the accrediting agency is fair.
. . .

Hmm. The goals are good, but this sounds a government entanglement with religion - some religious beliefs are okay, some are clearly wrong.

Why not have secular disaster relief counselors? Does theology actually have anything to say about disaster relief?

RufusAtticus · 07-23-2003, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto
Hmm. The goals are good, but this sounds a government entanglement with religion - some religious beliefs are okay, some are clearly wrong.

From the looks of it this is being spun off from the Red Cross. Their not affialiated with the government, but are hoping to be recognized and used as a primary disaster relief agency.

Quote:

Why not have secular disaster relief counselors? Does theology actually have anything to say about disaster relief?

I think that's just what they are trying to do. For the most part, clergy are expected to be counselors. They recognize the need to counsel the person not convert them. This group seems aimed to weed out people who think they can be counselors but are simply not capable of providing counseling. I'd be suprised if they rejected a qualfied non-theist simply because they lack a god-concept.

Toto · 07-23-2003, 06:21 PM

But this is a chaplain's group - not a social worker's group. And they are offering what they call "spiritual counseling." I doubt that they would reject a Unitarian or a Zen Buddhist, but why should they not accept any trained counselor with no religious connection?

fragmentsofdreams · 07-23-2003, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto
But this is a chaplain's group - not a social worker's group. And they are offering what they call "spiritual counseling." I doubt that they would reject a Unitarian or a Zen Buddhist, but why should they not accept any trained counselor with no religious connection?

Some people have spiritual questions they need to deal with. It's hard for a non-theist to help someone answer the question, "Why did God allow this to happen?" It a meaningless question to them.

Toto · 07-24-2003, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fragmentsofdreams
Some people have spiritual questions they need to deal with. It's hard for a non-theist to help someone answer the question, "Why did God allow this to happen?" It a meaningless question to them.

On the other hand, it doesn't sound like these chaplains are going to be allowed to actually answer the question either, unless their answer fits some government approved neutral soothing formula.

Besides, it's not a meaningless question to a non-theist. It is a question that should challenge one's beliefs about a god who intervenes in history, and can lead to meaningful discussions.

xorbie · 07-24-2003, 12:44 AM

Um... it would be just as meaningless to an athiest as to a theist who happens to believe in a different God or to a Buddhist. Moreover, not all athiests are material athiests, and many have a lot of "spiritual training" so to speak. Actually, I like the idea of the whole thing, as it sounds like they are just there to help, and not convert or offer their own religion's official stance on the issue.

RufusAtticus · 07-24-2003, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto
But this is a chaplain's group - not a social worker's group. And they are offering what they call "spiritual counseling."

That's because they are used to calling it that. You have to remember where these people are comming from. However, given that they realize that non-theists need "spiritual" counseling too in times of crisis, I'd seriously doubt that they turn away a secular counselor who met other reqirements.

Quote:

but why should they not accept any trained counselor with no religious connection?

Because they want to be inclusive. I'd be suprised if they rejected a trained counselor because they are a non-theist.

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07-23-2003, 06:21 PM	#3
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	But this is a chaplain's group - not a social worker's group. And they are offering what they call "spiritual counseling." I doubt that they would reject a Unitarian or a Zen Buddhist, but why should they not accept any trained counselor with no religious connection?

07-24-2003, 12:44 AM	#6
xorbie Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Champaign, IL or Boston, MA Posts: 6,360	Um... it would be just as meaningless to an athiest as to a theist who happens to believe in a different God or to a Buddhist. Moreover, not all athiests are material athiests, and many have a lot of "spiritual training" so to speak. Actually, I like the idea of the whole thing, as it sounds like they are just there to help, and not convert or offer their own religion's official stance on the issue.

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