Freethought & Rationalism Archive

DougI · 07-11-2002, 08:53 AM

Mao is often credited for leading to the demise of 20 million Chinese. However the Taiping Rebellion also caused the death of 20 million Chinese. The leader of the rebellion was a Christian and at that time 20 million was a higher percentage of the Chinese population. Without the rebellion the Manchu dynasty wouldn't have fallen and Mao couldn't ascend to power. Therefore the Christian led to the death of 40 million people in a sense.

<a href="http://www.historyhouse.com/stories/taiping.htm" target="_blank">http://www.historyhouse.com/stories/taiping.htm</a>
<a href="http://www.watson.org/rivendell/historyeasttaiping.html" target="_blank">http://www.watson.org/rivendell/historyeasttaiping.html</a>
<a href="http://www.nla.gov.au/asian/pub/aglms1.html" target="_blank">http://www.nla.gov.au/asian/pub/aglms1.html</a>

Ron Garrett · 07-11-2002, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DougI:
The Christians are missing the point. No true Nazi would participate in the killing of six million Jews. True Nazis love wearing uniforms, marching and picking flowers for girlfriends, they don't like killing. We certainly can't let a few bad apples speak for the rest of them.

Priceless!!!

Buffman · 07-11-2002, 01:45 PM

PJPSYCO

A review of the info at this URL could prove helpful:

<a href="http://www.adherents.com/adhloc/Wh_67.html#133" target="_blank">http://www.adherents.com/adhloc/Wh_67.html#133</a>

DougI and punta

Great posts. Thank you.

Thor Q. Mada · 07-11-2002, 05:07 PM

Mao probably killed a lot more than 20 mio people, directly and indirectly, and plunged China into 30 years of darkness. The human and economical loss of what he has done will never be totally calculated but he is probably one of the worst people ever having lived on this planet. But what he did was not in the name of Atheism, but rather a self protection reflex at a moment his star was waning.

Bill · 07-11-2002, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vorkosigan:
Hitler was obviously a theist of some kind. It is difficult to reconstruct his exact beliefs -- he told people whatever they wanted to hear -- but clearly he believed in some higher power. He apparently venerated Jesus but laughed at Christianity. He instituted prayer in the schools, but persecuted the churches in his later years. You figure out what he believed.

I've seen the matter of Hitler's religion discussed at length among atheist PhDs and there is no good conclusion to be reached (although Richard Carrier did manage to dig up an unredacted version of "Table Talk" that rebuts some specific claims about what Hitler did and/or did not say; claims generally made by Christians I might add).

Hitler was confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church, which is one of the two recognized religions in Germany. However, there is little or no record of Hitler ever doing anything for his personal religious beliefs as an adult (he didn't go to mass, etc. etc. etc.).

Some of Hitler's expressed views could be taken as pagan. But Hitler NEVER expressed any viewpoint on religious matters that was expressly an atheistic viewpoint (unless a Christian is saying that the failure to believe that Jesus is God makes you an atheist....). So, the one incontrovertible conclusion we can reach is that Hitler most certainly was not an atheist.

== Bill

mibby529 · 07-15-2002, 12:18 PM

Hitler was a Theosophist. It was a white-supremacist cult in the late 19th/early 20th centuries. He even had a copy of The Secret Doctrine by his bed.

As for the article itself, there's a rule that when ANY debate goes on long enough, one side will degenerate into ad hominems, and think of the worst insult he can. And what is the worst insult possible? A comparison involving Nazis.

[ July 16, 2002: Message edited by: mibby529 ]

07-15-2002, 12:18 PM	#26
mibby529 Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Cali Posts: 170	Hitler was a Theosophist. It was a white-supremacist cult in the late 19th/early 20th centuries. He even had a copy of The Secret Doctrine by his bed. As for the article itself, there's a rule that when ANY debate goes on long enough, one side will degenerate into ad hominems, and think of the worst insult he can. And what is the worst insult possible? A comparison involving Nazis. [ July 16, 2002: Message edited by: mibby529 ]</p>

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07-11-2002, 08:53 AM	#21
DougI Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Wichita, KS, USA Posts: 932	Mao is often credited for leading to the demise of 20 million Chinese. However the Taiping Rebellion also caused the death of 20 million Chinese. The leader of the rebellion was a Christian and at that time 20 million was a higher percentage of the Chinese population. Without the rebellion the Manchu dynasty wouldn't have fallen and Mao couldn't ascend to power. Therefore the Christian led to the death of 40 million people in a sense. <a href="http://www.historyhouse.com/stories/taiping.htm" target="_blank">http://www.historyhouse.com/stories/taiping.htm</a> <a href="http://www.watson.org/rivendell/historyeasttaiping.html" target="_blank">http://www.watson.org/rivendell/historyeasttaiping.html</a> <a href="http://www.nla.gov.au/asian/pub/aglms1.html" target="_blank">http://www.nla.gov.au/asian/pub/aglms1.html</a>

07-11-2002, 01:45 PM	#23
Buffman Beloved Deceased Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central Florida Posts: 3,546	PJPSYCO A review of the info at this URL could prove helpful: <a href="http://www.adherents.com/adhloc/Wh_67.html#133" target="_blank">http://www.adherents.com/adhloc/Wh_67.html#133</a> DougI and punta Great posts. Thank you.

07-11-2002, 05:07 PM	#24
Thor Q. Mada Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Asia Posts: 3,558	Mao probably killed a lot more than 20 mio people, directly and indirectly, and plunged China into 30 years of darkness. The human and economical loss of what he has done will never be totally calculated but he is probably one of the worst people ever having lived on this planet. But what he did was not in the name of Atheism, but rather a self protection reflex at a moment his star was waning.

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