dk

I agree, and rationally I know therefore that murder has no moral basis. Any moral judgment must justify the relationship between thee and me upon equal treatment (i.e. common respect) under the law.

DRFseven

Why?

dk

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DRFseven
Why? [/QUOTIf my liberty supersedes your right to life (and visa versa), then I’m entitled to all your liberty and property by exercising my discretion (liberty) to kill you(power). Such an arrangement turns the law into a weapon that institutionalizes murder as a legitimate expression of liberty. As such DRFseven, being a rational person, must realize the deadly threat my liberty poses to him and his. The effect undermines the peace and prosperity with a fundamental injustice that deprives us both of a potentially valuable friend and alley by making us natural enemies, therefore opposes the intrinsic good essential to happiness. In a moral world the basis of my liberty must be your right to life and visa versa.
E]

DRFseven

What makes you think peace, prosperity, happiness, life itself - any of that stuff - is essential?

dk

Because people exist and the struggle for existence in its entirety with all human differences, flaws and strengths considered summarily orders human life in itself for itself with happiness in mind.

DRFseven

"Struggles" don't order things or have things in mind. There is no reason to think happiness (or anything else), in and of itself, is essential.

AdamWho

Morals are simply a reflection of your values.
I value money so I want to get as much as I can, however, I also value my freedom .
So now I have to use my brain to find a balance between my conflicting values; this process is called ethics.
The end product is a (hopefully) coherent code of values to guide my life, this is call morals.

dk

I didn't say happiness was essential. I said that all willful human acts summarily orders life in and for itself with happiness in mind.

DRFseven

You said, "Any moral judgment must justify the relationship between thee and me upon equal treatment (i.e. common respect) under the law. " Why MUST a moral judgment justify ANYTHING, including "equal treatment?"

What do you mean by "all willful human acts summarily orders life... ?" How do acts order life? Are you saying that if I drink a beer, that act causes life "in and for itself?"

dk

I'm repeating myself. My liberty depends on your right to life, (and visa versa), because if my liberty poses an eminant deadly threat to your life (and visa versa), then reason would justify you to kill me in self defense (and visa versa).

In other words the right to life, liberty, and property are ordered by moral principles with reason. My liberty ends where your freedom begins (and visa versa). Without the liberty to kill you, then my desire to kill is affectively deterred. So your right to life by logical necessity supersedes my liberty (and visa versa) because we are reasonable creatures. In effect morality orders relationships to make friendship, peace and prosperity possible. Friendship, peace and prosperity have happiness in mind.