Freethought & Rationalism Archive

lpetrich · 10-09-2002, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DMB:

(Why the "West" has the best scientists...)

I would suggest that it had a hell of a lot to do with the methods of thought of the ancient Greeks. Perhaps we should all start worshipping Zeus, Apollo, Hera, Artemis, Aphrodite, etc.

Exactly right. Simply read the original version of the Hippocratic Oath. It starts with

Quote:

I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfil according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:

So to be a good doctor, one must be a Hellenic pagan?

Autonemesis · 10-09-2002, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sciteach:
KINDBUD--everything is permitted eh?

Thats just a crock and you know it. I guess we should permit your bad behavior and stupidity. It would be SO un Xian of me to judge you.

Damn, I got teacher to go into spin cycle! Wheeee!

Wyz_sub10 · 10-09-2002, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sciteach:
You might be able to get all 'that good stuff' without 'religion' but did we acquire it without Christianity? That's the question that you refuse to address. You, your family, your descendants, and antecendants have and will all be influenced beyond what even you can imagine (which is apparently not vey much, you prefer to see just as far as the end of your nose and no further), and this is what troubles you all so.....this is off topic so if you want to take thia further then start a topic, and we'll get some historians to input too and see where we go...

Did we acquire it without Christianty? Many countries did. We acquired many, many things from non-christian countries. I don't refuse to address any question. You didn't ask it, but I've answered it now in any case.

Being influenced by Christianity does not imply they will be *positively* influenced by it.

You have received many examples of slavery endorsed by the bible. I doubt you're familiar with the bible, maybe even as unfamiliar as you are with biology. Otherwise, you'd already know of those examples and would be scrambling to make excuses for them.

Speaking of "refusing to answer", you never addressed my question to you re: theoretical physics.

And by the way, I have a history degree. So start that thread about how christianity saved the world and I'll be glad to shed some light on your unfamiliarty with that subject as well.

Albion · 10-09-2002, 03:52 PM

Quote:

You willbe relieved to hear that I am not twisting there minds--we just learn the facts. Evolution is not a fact,its a theory.

Well, if you're ignoring theories, you aren't teaching science. A science teacher who simply teaches lists of facts at the high school level is doing his pupils quite a disservice. The fact of evolution is that descent with modification happens; it's an observable and verifiable event and hence is a scientific fact. The theory of evolution by natural selection is the theory that best explains the facts. You do know the difference, don't you? You do know that theories are the basis of the scientific method, don't you? And why doesn't that school of yours have any teachers with qualifications in biology?

Actually, I don't know why I'm asking. With creationism being pushed at kids in so many places, why would anybody want to become a biology teacher in this country these days?

Doubting Didymus · 10-09-2002, 04:14 PM

Quote:

why would anybody want to become a biology teacher in this country these days?

Obviously, no one. It seems that is why complete laypeople are forced to do it.

Reminder for Sciteach: Is gravity a fact or a theory?

gravitybow · 10-09-2002, 04:23 PM

Quote:

sciteach zinger #1:
Data never convinces it only convicts.

Quote:

sciteach zinger #2:
I am not at all scared of science and embrace it in all its forms if it truly an open-minded search for knowledge and admitting new paradigms andideas. Unfortunately, ID cannot prove,nor can any material endeavor prove the existence of anything supernatural,we just feel it and no amount of your data will prove otherwise.

Quote:

sciteach zinger #3:
The laws of physics break down during the first microseconds of the Big Bang. Are you implying that mean the beginning of the Universe is unscientific too??

Quote:

gravitybow goes fishing:
But you don't have a degree in physics either. So?

Quote:

sciteach nibbles:
Yes I do have a physics degree 1986

Let me rephrase that: You may have a questionable physics-related degree of some type, but you couldn't possibly have a Physics (capital "P") degree. Right? Don't be shy now.

(edited for format)

[ October 09, 2002: Message edited by: gravitybow ]

Bubba · 10-09-2002, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gravitybow:

We might have acquired it centuries sooner and been generations ahead of where we are now but for that Christian brick wall known as the Dark Ages.

Agreed!

<img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" /> <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

Bubba

Happy Wonderer · 10-09-2002, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sciteach:
You might be able to get all 'that good stuff' without 'religion' but did we acquire it without Christianity? That's the question that you refuse to address. You, your family, your descendants, and antecendants have and will all be influenced beyond what even you can imagine (which is apparently not vey much, you prefer to see just as far as the end of your nose and no further), and this is what troubles you all so.....this is off topic so if you want to take thia further then start a topic, and we'll get some historians to input too and see where we go...

Well, you want some historical input. Not to throw gasoline onto this already animated discussion, but are you trying to imply that the first or best scientists were Christian?

Question, as a physicist, what is the name of the numerals that you use for your calculations? Are you familiar with a gent by the name of "Mohammad Bin Musa Al-Khawarizmi?" (There is a good Catholic name for ya...) Where did our concepts of hygenie come from?

Just try typing "muslim scientists" into google and see what pops out. After you are done amusing yourself there, start looking at Chinese scientists. (Who first invented movable type?) And of course the Greeks were good solid Christians...

If you are teaching science, don't let your western christian bigotry blind you to the true foundations of our science. Christians contributed as well; great thinkers have existed in all faiths and non-faiths.

HW
<a href="http://www.ummah.org.uk/history/scholars/" target="_blank">Here is a link on Muslim scientists to get you started</a>

Happy Wonderer · 10-09-2002, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sciteach:
Yeah, you're right on there pal--they only gave us hospitals, education, work ethic, love your neighbor (not just your jewish friend), ended slavery twice.
Don't you know that it's unscientific to exalt and magnify the data against a movement, whilst ignoring the abundant data in its favor?
It's what all humanists do. I wonder how many Saudi women are showing us there scientific expertise on web sites such as this?? Why does the 'West' have almost all the best scientists?? Please tell me the pat 'secular' response to this.

Let's see, what was the name of the author of the canonical [i]western[\i] medical text between the 12th and 17th century? Ahh, there it is -- "Ibin Sina" (Avicenna) who is also recognized as a Muslim scholar.

Quote:

The Arabic text of the Qanun was published in Rome in 1593 and was therefore one of the earliest Arabic books to see print. It was translated into Latin by Gerard of Cremona in the 12th century. This 'Canon', with its encyclopaedic content, its systematic arrangement and philosophical plan, soon worked its way into a position of pre-eminence in the medical literature of the age displacing the works of Galen, al-Razi and al-Majusi, and becoming the text book for medical education in the schools of Europe. In the last 30 years of the 15th century it passed through 15 Latin editions and one Hebrew. In recent years, a partial translation into English was made. From the 12th-17th century, the Qanun served as the chief guide to Medical Science in the West and is said to have influenced Leonardo da Vinci. In the words of Dr. William Osler, the Qanun has remained "a medical bible for a longer time than any other work."

<a href="http://www.ummah.org.uk/history/scholars/ibn_sina/" target="_blank">Url to source</a>

HW

[ October 09, 2002: Message edited by: Happy Wonderer ]

Oolon Colluphid · 10-10-2002, 12:50 AM

I just love having my posts ignored by the person I�ve spent time to write them for

I repeat, on the off-chance of getting an answer:

Quote:

sciteach:

because all those same evidences you use for evilution, I will use to convince myself of the sublime grandeur and power of the Creator.

Oolon:
[List of poor and stupid designs in nature]

Where�s the sublime grandeur, eh pal?

I�m not surprised you�d rather discuss sociology than biology, since you clearly know nothing about biology. But since you plan to teach it, you cannot dodge the actual biology. So answer the bloody question. If good designs are a sign of a creator, what do poor designs indicate?

Oolon

[ October 10, 2002: Message edited by: Oolon Colluphid ]

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.