scombrid

JamesKrieger: Good clarification on my points. My advice wasn't exactly by the book. The following is my rational for deviating from ideal.

This depends on what your schedule allows. If you're like me and live over 30minutes from the gym you can only get to the gym once per day. 5-6sessions per week is the best that I can manage. Going to failure with 4-6days rest has produced the best results for me on my current training volume. I bumped my bodyweight from 150lbs to 205lbs in 2years and increased my 2rep squat max from 250lbs to 455lbs in that time even though I suffered the set back of a broken leg after the 1st year of training. Going to failure does open one up very easily to overtraining problems, long plateaus, and every loss of muscle. The line between the right amount of failure and sore for 4days is very fine. It's taken me a couple of years to figure out where that line is and not cross it too frequently.



When I started training 2.5yrs ago during my senior year in college I was 5minutes from the gym and did 2-a-days. My weekly training volume was still 12-15hours as it is now but I did less volume for each muscle group and hit each muscle group once every 3days. I had great results and a lot less soreness. I like this method better but can't get in 10-12 sessions (~1hour each) per week until I live closer to a gym.


I aim to overshoot the necessary because life gets in the way of proper eating every now and again. I can't afford the meal replacement bars and such. I overshoot in any given meal to make up for the meal I'll probably miss when I get hung up in the lab processing some critical sample. Besides, if I'd rather burn off excess protein than come up short. I recognize that some people (usually protein powder manufacturers) claim that you actually need 1.5-2g per pound bodyweight. That figure is perverted (deliberately I imagine. There more we eat, the more that they sell) from studies that relate necessary protein intake to lean body mass.

Again, I prefer to cronically overshoot than come up short. A little extra fat on an otherwise fit body never hurt anything besides my ego. Every source I've encountered indicates that 500kcal per day is ideal. But one day, we have engine problems in the field and I miss a meal because we're late getting back to the dock. My plan is that the 1000kcal surplus that I ran the day before resulted in a little extra glycogen stored in the muscle so I don't go catabolic on the protein quite as fast. Yeah, my bodyfat increases from 7-8% to 10% when I bulk up but at 10% you can still see my abs, obliques, and serratus, I just can't wear pants that are tight in the waste. When I tried to stick too close to the 500Cal surplus, my weight and strength were more prone to plateaus.

scombrid

Annecdote on the pro-hormones. I ran into I guy in the gym that I haven't seen in 8weeks. He's 10pounds heavier and he cut his bodyfat in half in the last eight weeks. His strength gains are ridiculous. He used prohormones and he appears to have had no ill effects from them. I still say that farting around with your hormones is cheating even if we figure out a fail safe way to do it. Everybody I know that has used the things in conjuction with a solid training regiment has seen crazy muscle gains.

call me SnydAr

scombrid:

by any chance, do you know what he used?

i think i am going to get the mag-10. i've talked to 3 people who have used it and they all gained at least 9lbs, one gained 15. this was with 2 weeks on the mag-10, then 2 weeks on M and Tribex-500. the guy who gained 9 lbs did just one, 4-week cycle, the guy who gained 15 did 2, 4-week cycles.

alright guys, if i do end up trying it, i'll surely post my results.

-Chris
mxyzptlk@attbi.com

Joyous

Please pardon a question from the clueless.....

Does more muscle, more BULK, automatically equal "more fit"?

call me SnydAr

no, it doesn't.

i'm already pretty fit and have a good endurance, just want more bulk.

-Chris
mxyzptlk@attbi.com

DNAunion

DNAunion: My two cents, for what it's worth.

1) Be leary of the hype, even the "medical research". As someone else pointed out, a good bit of the research is conducted by the very company that makes the drugs (or by other companies dependent upon that drug-producing company). As a rule of thumb, consdier most of the "amazing results" to be largely due to such bias and not to factual findings. Companies start tests and if they are not going as planned, pull the plug and the results never get published. Companies also cherry pick results to give the false impression to consumers.

For example, years ago I took Frac (ferulic acid, I think). It was the best thing out there: cut fat and increased muscle mass. Yeah, right! Anyone even know what it is now???

Then there was chromium picolinate. It was the best thing around: increased mass (and I think fat reduction too). Is it used anymore? No. In fact, real scientific evidence showed that it did not work.

I also took HgH (human growth hormone). Guess what...I can't donate blood anymore because I took it! Tells you how well the manufacturers kept their users informed of risks (there is now a safe form too, but it is very expensive).

2) Is it worth the money? Some bodybuilders spend tens of thousands of dollars on drugs preparing for a single competition. Do you really think those freak physiques come cheap?


3) Is it worth the potential health risks? I'll let others chime in with examples. I will just say that yes, steriods work (even my human anatomy and physiology text from college states so). But - as others stated - they can lead to atrophy of the testicles, acne, "male boobs", and other unwanted side effects.


I weighed everything myself and decided that whatever working out I did from now on would be all natural. That does not mean I can't take any supplements. Amino acid powders (protein shakes) and creatine are beneficial without having many negative side effects (creatine does more than just artificially puff your muscles up, which is the temporary result that fades once you stop using it).


As far as muscle hypertrophy, there is more to it than just protein synthesis. Many people visualize muscle growth to occur from within by increased protein synthesis. Though that does occur, it is not a complete description.

Intense exercise leads to microtrauma in the sarcolemma (plasma membrane of the muscle cell), which releases growth factors into the surrounding tissues. In response, satellite cells (muscle stem cells) multiply, differentiate, and fuse with the existing muscle fibers, resulting in an increase in size and in the number of nuclei present (a skeletal muscle fiber is multinucleate due to such cell fusions). Having more nuclei allows for an increase in protein synthesis (such as the proteins tropomyosin, troponin, G-actin, myosin, titin, etc. of the contractile machinery - i.e., sarcomeres - as well as of enzymes used in glycolysis and other metabolic activities). So growth does occur from withing, but also from without.

Also, there are two types of hypertrophy: sarcomere hypertrophy and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. Sarcomere hypertrophy is an increase in contractile proteins themselves resulting in an increase in the contractile machinery's cross sectional area (hyperplasia - an increase in muscle fiber count - is considered by most not to occur, but the number of myofilaments in an individual muscle fiber does increase). On the other hand, sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is an increase in accessory units - that is, in the number and size of mitochondria, in glycogen stores, in enzymes needed for glycolysis, etc.

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As far as HIT (high intensity training - that is, working a muscle to the point of temporary, complete failure), I have used it with good results. I do so because I cannot invest hours in the gym. I go in, work out hard, and am out in about half an hour. I work out only once a week (that is too long to wait between workouts - I would go back every 4 or 5 days, but I just can't).

My understanding is that the potential problem with working to failure is not related to the muscles, but to the nervous system. That is, it puts an excessive strain on the NS and it takes longer for it to recover than for the muscles to do so. Your muscles are ready to go again, but the rest of your body isn't.

Okay, something else. I have been given advice that when you first workout and are sore, that you should not wait any additional days for the soreness to go away - that you should go right back in to the gym on your next scheduled day and go the distance again. I believe that that is bad advice. I believe (based on something I read) that the body cannot handle being kicked when it is already down so the extra work will only break the muscles down more than they already are - here a bad thing (just like overtraining is). The article said that if you are sore, you are NOT ready to work out again. Rest the muscles: give them time not only to repair, but to overcompensate. Then hit them again.
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Another thing I recently read from more than one source. The first 8 weeks (or so) that you do an given exercise, most of the gains in weight being lifted is not due to an increase in muscle mass, but instead to nervous system adaptation. In a sense, you become better coordinated at that particular exercise over the course of several weeks (timing of firing of different motor units - recruitment - becomes tweeked, for example). Only then - once your nervous system has been fine tuned to the new activity - do your muscles get involved to a very significant degree (at which point hypertrophy should increase - until a plateau - a sticking point - is reached).

[ July 30, 2002: Message edited by: DNAunion ]</p>

DRFseven

Why?

Dr Rick

...For many, it just feels good to be bulked.

Rick

scombrid

Yeah, he used mag-10. He's just cycled off and went through a couple of days of feeling flat. I'm not sure whether it's psycosomatic or an actual temporary androgen deficiency, but he says he feels flat. I also know two guys that used 4-AD with good results. One thing that's hard to do with analyzing any of the results is that most guys train harder when they think that they have some edge. That makes differentiating between the gains from SupplementX and the gains from elevating the training intensity and volume difficult.

[ July 31, 2002: Message edited by: scombrid ]</p>

call me SnydAr

it helps with self-esteem, and some social anxiety problems that occur. If i know that under my clothes i look great, then i feel much better. also, i'm about to start bartending for a college job. the better i look to girls, the more i can flirt(succesfully). and the more i can flirt, the better i'll do tip wise(not to mention snag a few phone numbers ).

take it easy guys,
-Chris
mxyzptlk@attbi.com