Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Hubble head · 05-22-2003, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PsycheDelia
nope, that is not what i implied at all. i just meant that they have raised and lowered the terror alert so often over the past few months and this is the first time that something actually happened. i posted that AFTER the news of the explosion at yale, so i wasn't really HOPING for anything, just commenting on the incident. even though i personally do not think the yale attack had anything to do with osama, al qaeda et al.

At the time I wrote that I was unaware Yale had even been bombed. No biggie. But, yes it does look domestic.

Now if it took out the Skull and Bones secret frat house I might even chuckle -as long as no one was hurt.

Blixy Sticks · 05-22-2003, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by twisted brother
OK, I am a cynic, but I haven't seen one post here that claims to know or even believe that the precautions taken when the threat level is raised benefits anyone.
As someone who works with first responders all day, and who sits on top of one of the biggest soft targets in the southern US, I find most of the comments in this thread ignorant, arrogant and quite a few pretty fucking sick.
I personally appreciate having fewers wackos toodling through my soft target, fewer false alarms because of white powder and unattended packages, and better support in place when something does happen.
Now, this may all be one silly political game, but the fact is there have been numerous terrorist attacks on the US (count Twin Towers, Pentagon, Pennsylvania, but also anthrax several places, and hearken back to OK city). Whether Al Qaeda or McVeigh and Nichols, or some demented military scientist, the precautions that take place that apparently no one in this thread is aware of are helping protect all of us.
And a little bloody inconvenience to drivers at the border is irrelevant. We should have had better border security for a long time now.

How much did you pay in state income taxes this year to support the ramped up security efforts?

HaysooChreesto! · 05-22-2003, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by twisted brother
OK, I am a cynic, but I haven't seen one post here that claims to know or even believe that the precautions taken when the threat level is raised benefits anyone.
As someone who works with first responders all day, and who sits on top of one of the biggest soft targets in the southern US, I find most of the comments in this thread ignorant, arrogant and quite a few pretty fucking sick.
I personally appreciate having fewers wackos toodling through my soft target, fewer false alarms because of white powder and unattended packages, and better support in place when something does happen.
Now, this may all be one silly political game, but the fact is there have been numerous terrorist attacks on the US (count Twin Towers, Pentagon, Pennsylvania, but also anthrax several places, and hearken back to OK city). Whether Al Qaeda or McVeigh and Nichols, or some demented military scientist, the precautions that take place that apparently no one in this thread is aware of are helping protect all of us.
And a little bloody inconvenience to drivers at the border is irrelevant. We should have had better border security for a long time now.

Get used to it. When there's no terror attacks the U.S. government is purposely sowing the seeds of fear in order to take away our rights at the first opportunity OR they're instilling fear in us purposely while they're in the process of manufacturing a terrorist attack in order to further enrich Evil Corporate America. At the expense of our rights of course.

If there is a terrorist attack in the U.S. then the government has completely failed and the deaths of Americans underlines its total incompetence. What would the results be of another terrorist attack here? See above.

Is the color systme effective? Probably not and as time goes by, what little effectiveness it does have now will probably fade even more. But if someone has any better ideas I'd like to hear them.

"Now here it comes... Now say ROCK N' ROLL!"

Grumpy · 05-22-2003, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Koiyotnik
Maybe you can find something credible to terrorism that's occured at the Ambassador Bridge to change my mind.

Call me naive (You're naive!) but isn't the whole idea behind higher security to prevent attacks? The fact that there haven't been any is a good thing.

Blixy Sticks · 05-22-2003, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grumpy
The fact that there haven't been any is a good thing.

Are you certain about that?

05-22-2003, 03:00 PM

Koiyotnik

Quote:

Maybe you can find something credible to terrorism that's occured at the Ambassador Bridge to change my mind.

Right, for every bridge and entrance into the US where there has not been anything found, in fact anywher there has been no specific evidence, we should just skip it and let the trucks roll. Along the same lines, anywhere there has never been a fire, we should stop replacing the batteries in the smoke detector.

Hubble head

Quote:

My heart goes out to all the first responders going through the motions of disaster preparedness and others unfortunate enough to find themselves worried about where they spend most of their time because it's now a "target". But your fear is your fear.

I did not raise the question of fear. I am speaking of the very real day to day actions of first responders. They are working harder. They need support. I think that the comments of those who think that it is just a game have no evidence that nothing is happening besides the raised level of public paranoia.

Blixy Sticks

Quote:

How much did you pay in state income taxes this year to support the ramped up security efforts?

None. I live in Texas. State income taxes are funding less of the increased actions than federal money. I'm not sure of your point. The state does pay my salary though. And they are not paying me anymore for my increased training or workload. Please explain.

Hubble head · 05-22-2003, 04:09 PM

Twisted Bro-

My point is not about those who are actually doing things to make sure everything and everyone is safe, it�s about those who are trying to make everyone feel unsafe. Duct tape anyone??

That being said, drills on the Golden Gate Bridge are an excellent example of this. Not only is it a waste of time, its more of the "everyone pay attention over there while we screw you right here" syndrome. If you start to think of the infinite number of ways a terrorist can attack to achieve his goals you'll start to see the impossibility of it all. We don't need more protection, we need to stop doing what we do to make people want to attack us, plain and simple.

If you are intelligent, stay informed by reading your news from multiples of independent and international sources, and keep an open mind, you will eventually see what the few brave ones who dare speak out at the risk of being labeled a traitor are talking about.

Koiyotnik · 05-22-2003, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grumpy
Call me naive (You're naive!) but isn't the whole idea behind higher security to prevent attacks? The fact that there haven't been any is a good thing.

No, you're not naive, you simply misunderstood me.
I'm not saying, show me proof that something catastrophic has happened at the border crossing, but show me proof that this heightened security has uncovered any credible evidence of supposed plots to cause a catastrophe.

Twisted Brother, I have yet to understand how my sympathy for the truckers is either ignorant, arrogant or "pretty fucking sick."

On a side note, when the colourised levels are jumping around, I find I don't pay it any attention. In fact, I can confidently say that I am rather de-sensitized to this who fiasco. Isn't that what the levels are trying to prevent, apathy? I mean, I'm sitting right next door to a few nuclear power facilities, and the GM HQ in North America. An attack on any of these sites is conceivable, but I find myself worrying less and less.

I also find it ironic that the US gov't would warn of potential attacks, when a year ago a highly volatile chemicle spill on Belle Isle that wafted into my area was brought to our attention by US authorities six hours after the event.

05-23-2003, 07:05 AM

Hubble head

Quote:

So who wants to bet that nothing happens THIS time around? I'd guess we might see another attempt at suicide bombing in the Phillipines but I strongly doubt here.

Vegas Odds:
US 100 to 1
Phillipines 1 to 1
Saudi Arabia 50 to 1
Iraq 10 to 1
Israel 2 to 1
Europe 10 to 1
UK 5 to 1

Amaranth

Quote:

Call me crazy, but the whole color system seems like a simplistic scam. It's a quick, efficient, easy way to convince the lowest common denominator of the public that the government is protecting us. It will never go to red, because that would cause panic, and it will likely not ever drop below yellow while Bush remains in office, as that would mean the government isn't looking out for us anymore.

Koiyotnik

Quote:

I hate it when it goes up to code orange. All of the poor transport trucks are backed up for 7+ hours, waiting to cross the border at the Ambassador Bridge. When going in to work today, they were backed up well onto the 401, which is at least 8 kilometres from the bridge.

To me these quotes, including yours are petty, ignorant, whiney and stupid. The vegas odds qualify as "pretty fucking sick," to me.

Yours is just whiney until you say, "I have yet to see any single threat cross over the Ambassador bridge via tractor trailers." This is where it becomes ignorant.
Please note the following news stories regarding terrorists and the Canadian border: http://www.cnn.com/1999/US/12/20/bor....04/index.html http://www.cnn.com/1999/US/12/23/bor....01/index.html http://www.cnn.com/1999/US/12/22/bor....02/index.html.
That's enough reason for me.

Sure maybe the whole system and the way it is publicized is political, but I am saying that when resources are mobilized it is a good thing. Sure maybe the whole duct tape and plastic thing is a fiasco. And as others point out, the federal government has a whole lot of idiots who won't shut up, but we elect stupid idiots time after time. This does not reflect on the soldiers, INS and Customs personnel, FBI investigators and non-federal folks who work hard. Even the evil Patriot Act and all of the other legislation that allows intelligence to spy on their own citizens, and the abuse of power by the executive branch do not reflect poorly on the people who do the work.
My boss is a dumbass, but that doesn't make me a dumbass (I may be a dumbass for totally different reasons!).

I think that this is why there are two camps in the discussion of "Homeland Security." There are people who see the abuses of power and regressive legislation and are protesting as loudly as they should, and then there are the people who see questioning any action which involves the soldiers as unpatriotic.
I am of the camp that we should brutally criticize the actions of the president and the legislature and the poorly concieved ideas they have acted on, and that we should stop all of the administration who were responsible for security and intelligence before 9/11, and grill them until their ass is raw.
I do think that the reorganization of intelligence and security is a good thing, but poorly concieved and hastily carried out. And what hurts that the most is Tom dumbass Ridge leading it.

But, the discussion must be worded carefully to include the executives and politicians who fucked up and continue to fuck up and to exclude the ground troops.

Hubble head · 05-23-2003, 07:19 AM

I think if you look closer at the colored warnings and everything that surrounds them you will see the sickest joke of all. In wierd times like these sometimes we must have somekind sense of humor, albeit a darker one to deal with the strange goings on.

If I hurt your feelings or upset your tummy I apologize, OK?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

05-22-2003, 04:09 PM	#27
Hubble head Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Corn rows Posts: 4,570	Twisted Bro- My point is not about those who are actually doing things to make sure everything and everyone is safe, it�s about those who are trying to make everyone feel unsafe. Duct tape anyone?? That being said, drills on the Golden Gate Bridge are an excellent example of this. Not only is it a waste of time, its more of the "everyone pay attention over there while we screw you right here" syndrome. If you start to think of the infinite number of ways a terrorist can attack to achieve his goals you'll start to see the impossibility of it all. We don't need more protection, we need to stop doing what we do to make people want to attack us, plain and simple. If you are intelligent, stay informed by reading your news from multiples of independent and international sources, and keep an open mind, you will eventually see what the few brave ones who dare speak out at the risk of being labeled a traitor are talking about.

05-23-2003, 07:19 AM	#30
Hubble head Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Corn rows Posts: 4,570	I think if you look closer at the colored warnings and everything that surrounds them you will see the sickest joke of all. In wierd times like these sometimes we must have somekind sense of humor, albeit a darker one to deal with the strange goings on. If I hurt your feelings or upset your tummy I apologize, OK?

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.