FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > IIDB ARCHIVE: 200X-2003, PD 2007 > IIDB Philosophical Forums (PRIOR TO JUN-2003)
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 05:55 AM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-30-2003, 09:58 PM   #71
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Posts: 1,000
Default

Why don't you try explaining to us why you think life is an 'intrinsic' value?
Dominus Paradoxum is offline  
Old 05-31-2003, 06:10 AM   #72
dk
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,774
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Dominus Paradoxum
Why don't you try explaining to us why you think life is an 'intrinsic' value?
. The intrinsic value of human life follows from Natural Law Doctrine Thomas Aquinas summarized as The 1st Principle Of Practical Reason, “Good is to be done and evil avoided”. The intrinsic value of human life is a metaphysical truth necessary for human knowledge, dignity, happiness and progress to exist. Natural Law is therefore the bases of the physical sciences but derived from the natural endowments of free will and intellect upon which self evident truths rest. In a larger context Natural Law describes what is essentially human by necessity from existence, while Positive Law described with science what appears to be human from experience. When I say human life has intrinsic value I mean an inalienable right to life is necessary to clarify and order liberty, property, happiness,,, etc. rights.
dk is offline  
Old 05-31-2003, 06:56 AM   #73
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 5,393
Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally posted by dk
...When I say human life has intrinsic value I mean an inalienable right to life is necessary to clarify and order liberty, property, happiness,,, etc. rights.
How ironic that people like you degrade those very things.

How do you foster "happiness" and "liberty" by force-feeding a helpless victim of a terrible disease? Of what value to such a person is "property"? How does "inalienable right to life" somehow get translated into a justification to prolong a hopeless state of suffering?
Dr Rick is offline  
Old 05-31-2003, 07:17 AM   #74
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: god's judge (pariah)
Posts: 1,281
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Dr Rick
How ironic that people like you degrade those very things.

How do you foster "happiness" and "liberty" by force-feeding a helpless victim of a terrible disease? Of what value to such a person is "property"? How does "inalienable right to life" somehow get translated into a justification to prolong a hopeless state of suffering?
That is by far, the most compassionate, and true reality of the question that I have ever read. Thanks Dr. Rick.
keyser_soze is offline  
Old 05-31-2003, 01:17 PM   #75
dk
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,774
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Dr Rick
How ironic that people like you degrade those very things.

How do you foster "happiness" and "liberty" by force-feeding a helpless victim of a terrible disease? Of what value to such a person is "property"? How does "inalienable right to life" somehow get translated into a justification to prolong a hopeless state of suffering?
In practical terms an inalienalbe right to life doesn't justify anything, but is necessary to a person's liberty, property and happiness in any possible world. Lets examine the concept of "Doctor assisted suicide" a little more closely. Fundamentally the physician subsumes his patients "right to life" to prescribe and administer a deadly substance. What of the patients liberty, property and happiness?...Don't be an asshole a corpse has no liberty, property or happiness rights. In fact a person without a right to life has lost any pretext of free will and intellect so has no dignity, perogative or rights at all. The only one empowered to speak for the paitent is Dr. Death, whose justification follows from Dr. Pain. In a sense, I agree with you Dr. Rick. A person under the management of Doctor Death and Dr. Pain is placed into an utterly hopeless circumstance stripped of dignity and value. Only a lunatic or a victim would make such a deal.
dk is offline  
Old 05-31-2003, 03:56 PM   #76
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: SLC, UT
Posts: 957
Default

dk, you have the right to remain silent. Should I therefore force you to shut up? No? Well then, we see the problem with forcing patients to live.
Jinto is offline  
Old 05-31-2003, 06:52 PM   #77
dk
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,774
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Jinto
dk, you have the right to remain silent. Should I therefore force you to shut up? No? Well then, we see the problem with forcing patients to live.
Actually there is no right to silence, the 5th Amendment abolishes silence as self-incriminating evidence. People have been held in contempt of court when they remain silent after being granted blanket immunity. The only way to shut someone up is to kill them.
dk is offline  
Old 05-31-2003, 06:54 PM   #78
Obsessed Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Not Mayaned
Posts: 96,752
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by dk
In practical terms an inalienalbe right to life doesn't justify anything, but is necessary to a person's liberty, property and happiness in any possible world. Lets examine the concept of "Doctor assisted suicide" a little more closely. Fundamentally the physician subsumes his patients "right to life" to prescribe and administer a deadly substance. What of the patients liberty, property and happiness?...Don't be an asshole a corpse has no liberty, property or happiness rights. In fact a person without a right to life has lost any pretext of free will and intellect so has no dignity, perogative or rights at all. The only one empowered to speak for the paitent is Dr. Death, whose justification follows from Dr. Pain. In a sense, I agree with you Dr. Rick. A person under the management of Doctor Death and Dr. Pain is placed into an utterly hopeless circumstance stripped of dignity and value. Only a lunatic or a victim would make such a deal.
How can one truly have the right to life if you don't have the right to take your own life?

If it's truly yours you can do with it as you will.
Loren Pechtel is offline  
Old 05-31-2003, 07:26 PM   #79
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: SLC, UT
Posts: 957
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by dk
Actually there is no right to silence, the 5th Amendment abolishes silence as self-incriminating evidence. People have been held in contempt of court when they remain silent after being granted blanket immunity. The only way to shut someone up is to kill them.
Unfortunately I've already awarded the Daily Award for MISSING THE BLOODY POINT to Magus55, but you get the (dis)honorable mention.
Jinto is offline  
Old 05-31-2003, 07:43 PM   #80
dk
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,774
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Loren Pechtel
How can one truly have the right to life if you don't have the right to take your own life?

If it's truly yours you can do with it as you will.
A person has the power to commit suicide, so they don't need a right. I find the greater question contemplates what reitualized suicide says about a culture.
dk is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:58 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.