cricket

I think RR is for anybody. It's strictly a secular program and one's religious beliefs can't help or hurt one's chances. (Check it out online - you can view the alcoholics' program he has devised with its stirring graduation music at the end. Sounds corny, but kinda neat IMO.) What Trimpey won't tolerate are posts to the forums that rip xtian beliefs. I saw him censor an atheist who posted about stoopid xtians who worship the sky fairy. It's okay to be an atheist in the program, but it's not okay to tell the xtians how ridiculous their beliefs are -- at least, not on Trimpey's message boards.

Even if you know it's true.

christ-on-a-stick

Hi bryce,

Add my congrats to the others on your achievement.

This is the root of my disagreement with the AA approach; setting aside the "Higher Power = God" thing since they weasel out of it by saying your Higher Power can be anything, I take serious issue with the whole concept of the very first "step", which is While indeed many addicts' lives have become unmanageable, I disagree fundamentally with the concept of "powerlessness". While people may certainly FEEL powerless, IMO to teach them (and actually insist that they accept) that they actually ARE powerless is ultimately detrimental and just plain *not true*. This dogmatic insistence also strikes me as wrong-headed... how on earth does it make sense to cure one dependence by making you dependent on something else?

I echo the others' suggestions to check out Rational Recovery.

cricket

I am fascinated by addiction and recovery and the methods employed. I know a couple people who have been "clean and sober" for years via AA techniques. Since they have been successful, they are (naturally) feeling quite invested in the program, and spout its teachings accordingly. I also have a sister who is devoted to AA and hasn't "had a relapse" in a year or so. Her case is particularly intriguing to me -- as throughout her life she has not drank to excess and in fact rarely ever drank AT ALL. Of course, to hear it now, she has been "a drunk" for decades. I suspect it's that she loves to lead meetings and be the one to tell the gnarliest tale regarding past behavior. (Real... or invented.) Needless to say, she has now found a sense of purpose and a sense of belonging, and spends her free time recruiting er I mean visiting drunks in hospitals, etc.

I do believe she began drinking occasionally in her mid-thirties to quell anxiety. She is bi-polar, and her depressive cycles are about the same as ever - times of sadness, low energy, etc. Her manic cycles have changed, though, over the years. In younger days she was able to enjoy pleasurable and productive manic energy. But over the years her manic periods have become much more unpleasant; nothing but grating anxiety.

SO 3-4 years ago she began to drink, to help quell anxiety (though she'll TELL you she's been a drunk for 25 years). One day she drank before going to a school event (she's a school counselor) and was "busted" and then remanded to outpatient drug/alcohol treatment. She discovered a brand-new disneyland of AA where she has found spirituality and love and a sense of belonging, and she has invented a past designed to give her the greatest possible amount of self-respect among that group.

cricket

I'm glad it works for some, but if it's not a cult I don't know what is.

Godless Dave

Cricket, first of all I'm sorry to hear about your sister.

As to AA being a cult, we had a long long thread about that a while ago. What I gathered is that since AA is really a method, not an organization, you end up with thousands of AA groups, and some goups are cult-like and some are not, depending on the people in the group. I think as written the 12 steps are easy to turn into dogma. Once in a while I hear or read people saying you can only recover through the 12 steps, and that's a cult-like attitude. But not all AAers are like that.

Your sister's situation sounds sad. It seems like she had a mental illness for years but the only impetus to do anything about it came when she got busted. All they saw was the symptom, drinking, so that's all they tried to treat. Do you think part of her behavior could be her denying that she is mentally ill, blaming it on the alcohol instead?

I haven't looked into it much, but I'm suspicious of any one-size-fits-all approach. The addictive drug I am most familiar with is marijuana, and step 1 doesn't really fit the marijuana addict. Almost all the addicts I know are "functioning" addicts. They may be powerless over their addiction but they probably don't feel that way because THC is a very manageable addiction. Weed addicts rarely hit rock bottom because most of them can consume large amounts of weed and still carry out the day-to-day tasks of living. Other drugs have their own peculiarities that have to be taken into account. And many, if not all, addicts have underlying emotional problems or mental dysfunction that will still need to be treated once the addiction is gone.

cricket

I don't think it's that because ever since she got bipolar diagnosis she's been very candid about it. She hopes to diminish the stigma of mental illness by letting others see that she (capable person w/ so many accomplishments in life) has it. Another reason she's candid about it is she wants to build rapport w/ students who may be affected by such problems.

I think she invents an alcoholic past because then she has a story to tell; a monumental burden she can say she overcame (not on her own of course, for she is *powerless*!) Every time she tells of going from "drunk" to "recovering alcoholic" there are whistles and hoots and hollers from the audience. ("look how far she's come") Her sobriety gets thumbs-up and accolades and applause for her. And, of course, for AA.

cricket

Then they aren't following their program! The Alcoholics Anonymous program and materials teach that alcoholics are powerless and must turn their lives over to a higher power. No alcoholic will succeed without the magic twelve steps. IF they do, they are derided as "dry drunks" experiencing white-knuckle abstinence. Alcoholics who leave the fold are doomed to failure since they aren't "working the program."

Newcomers to AA who deny they are powerless will find they get their weiners whacked.

jayh

Incongruously , the AA dogma also teaches that you are the only one at fault for your dilemma, but you must rely on someone else to get you out.