Walross

Hello Corgan Sow. You wrote:

You're question makes it sound as though agnosticism and atheism are mutually exclusive. Agnosticism is about knowledge and atheism is about belief. Personally, I am an empirical agnostic since I feel that we cannot currently obtain the knowledge of whether or not certain types of deities exist. Since I don't know about the existence of such beings, and since I am properly skeptical, I am unable to believe in any of them. This makes me an atheist as well as an agnostic.

I stopped being a christian, not because of problems with christianity, but because I see no evidence for the supernatural. There is simply no need, aside from a casual interest, for me to investigate other religions. Regards,

Walross

Walter_Mitty

Why not weak atheism? What not strong atheism? Why not rationalism? Why not skepticism? All have their benefits and drawbacks; the only difference is they tend not to equate the unknown to an unverifiable deity.

Gee Mr. Sow, considering that there are over 10,000 known religions, well, let's just say I'd be dead before I made it through half of them! (Though I have looked at many)

Could you be more specific than that erroneous blanket statement? Examples please?

Speaking for myself, if anything, this "angst" which you speak of has "motivated" me to spend and inordinate amount of time disproving Christianity. This is due to my *former* church indoctrinated fear of hell.

As for making me *cling* to atheism, well sir, you are grossly mistaken. My reason, after a thorough examination of Christianity, has led me to the logical conclusion of weak atheism. I feel it is highly improbable that God has revealed Himself through Christianity. This is not to say I would not change my mind if there were overwhelming evidence for the Christian version of God. As it stands, this evidence is sorely lacking.

After considering your question I have to wonder who is brainwashed.

[ August 16, 2002: Message edited by: Bibliophile ]</p>

sighhswolf

In 1869 Huxley coined the term "Agnostic" because he didn't know what to call himself as his associates all claimed to be "ists" of one form or another, so he coined the term as a "label" for himself.
I dont really like labels, and find it very difficult to assign myself a label.
I dont necessarily think that there is any reality
outside of the one in which we as humans inhabit.
There has been no evidence so far that a fourth dimension exists, even though the discovery channel has all the nutcases trying to prove the "ghostly" realm does in fact exist.

I put gods,heaven,hell and the avenging angels
into the same catagory as Spiderman, Batman, Tales from the Crypt, Steven King novels etc.
I have never experienced anything in my half century that I could catagorize as "supernatural".
Therefore I cant conceive of a "supernatural" god figure.
In the CE (and I have said this before) the pious list over 20 attributes of the christian god.
Now how in the world do you list attributes of this so-called supernatural being, when its nature is described in biblical text as "unknowable", that we as poor little humans can never understand the ways of this being?
"Inconceivable" but having traits and characteristics that attempt to show this being as
accessible to humans.

Supernatural = relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe.
Departing from what is normal so as to transend
the natural laws of the universe.
This to me is an impossible barrier to a belief in gods or a god.
And the shuffle by the religious folks to present this god as being outside of the natural laws of the universe and at the same time exhibiting characteristics that all are too human is not believable and certainly not rational.

Spiritual people who have trained themselves to think in a specific manner using intuition and emotion and suspending reason for emotional comfort have no problem with the above contradictions, but I have not been able to suspend my reasoning long enough to allow myself to drift off into "Na Na Land".

I attempted to put my reasoning aside and in my younger years actually considered the ministry.
I also studied the Tao, and even became a Mormon Priesthood holder, but I was fooling myself and trying to be something I wasnt.
I was trying to please others who pushed their beliefs on everyone and disassociated those who did not participate in the "holy charade".

At a crucial point in my existence I finally realized that there is only this one reality, only one world in which to contribute... now ....today.
That this life is the only one we get and this earth is our home, and we should try and leave it a better place for those who follow.
I decided that I would live and love and enjoy this life and not spend valuable time thinking about whether I had "pleased" some "supernatural being" so that I could gain some reward after I die.

Yep, you could say that I have been well traveled in the religious circles and found nothing that I considered as supernatural or miraculous and that is the basis of the christian faith as well as others. (even though the Jews denounce miracles as proof of divinity).
Wolf

Perchance

Throwing my two little copper coins into the pot here...

Do all theists examine all religions before they choose their own? What about people whose parents are so fundy they never let them read anything else? What about people living in, say, small villages who may not have access to the Internet and academic knowledge about religion?

I didn't "study all religions" before thinking of myself as an agnostic, but I've been reading more and more about them lately because I'm curious, and so far I've seen nothing in them to convince me. Neopaganism is pretty, and in some ways I'd like it to be true, but I can't convince myself it is. Islam still strikes me as strict and repressive, though some poetry from the Qur'an is beautiful. I keep running into fundamentalist Christians, online and off, who prove that being a theist does not automatically make you a better person.

At the same time, I might have a religious experience I couldn't disprove or shake off tomorrow, and become a theist. But I don't think it's likely, and I don't think I should be required to hold my mind so far open that you can hear the air whooshing through my ears.

-Perchance.

Viti

I was an Easter/Christmas Christian at the most, but then I went new age, then pagan, then Native American type pantheist, then deist, then atheist.

hinduwoman

Well, many ex-christians turn up on the Hindu boards saying they are now Hindus!

Most probably use the same logic they used to discard christianity on every religion and realize that God is not proved by ANY religion.

Starboy

Corgan,

The responses on this board will not be a representative sample, since this is a web site for athiests. You might get a different set of responses if you posted this same question on sites that catered to different non-Christian beliefs.

Starboy

excreationist

Heathen Dawn:
That means, no literal belief in gods or anything supernatural. Any talk about gods or goddesses on my part (such as "Nature is Goddess") is just symbolism.
...
Simple: atheism has no emotional appeal, and I'm a religious man. I wanted to augment the rational truth of metaphysical naturalism with a system of worship, communion and interconnectedness. From the metaphysical naturalist postulate "nature all there is" I went to "creation is nature is creator" and then to nature worship.

I use the word "pagan" quite loosely here: non-Abrahamic, nature-oriented, but not necessarily polytheist. I'm not a polytheist or supernaturalist, I'm a pantheist and naturalist. I'm a deeply religious person striving to reconcile reason (naturalism) with emotion (nature worship).

I'm not sure how paganism comes into this - perhaps you like that rituals and traditionalism that is associated with it. (and of course, the nature worship)

Corgan Sow

I think many have misunderstood my nature of the question. If studying all religions, and not convinced of their teachings made you turn to atheism, it is fine with me. I go to the literal point of ex-Christians who straight away went to atheism without much consideration.

I recently announced my agnosticism at secular lifestyle board, you can read that.

My point is, if enough research and analysis gave you enough conclusion that there is no God, fine. For me, I stick to agnosticism first because I have not done my homework yet regarding atheism.

It is not the evidence that counts, but how it applies to your way of life. I cannot preach my anti-Christian beliefs to my friends who lived a good Christian life, because they're comfortable with it. They all claim to be True One, I assume, becuase there was no exposure to other religions at that time. Imagine if Jesus heard Gautama Buddha's teachings? There may be no Catholic Church today...

Religion is like a salesman product. Each claimed to be true because it worked for them, yet, they do not know how others will react.

Your basis? Religion is something to be discovered, not be found. If atheism suits you, fine.

Novowels

I don't think anyone misunderstood you at all.. The point is that most atheists don't go straight from Christian to atheist. Even if they do, they're often agnostic as well. (not knowing, but also not believing.)

You were wrong, or misinformed. Most people go to atheism after studying the available data, and finding no gods.