Freethought & Rationalism Archive

galiel · 10-21-2002, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos:
<strong>
It is wrong for you to question sacret cows for the simple reason that they are obviously not your cows.
</strong>

There is nothing wrong with questioning other people's sacred cows. It is only when their cows talk back that you should start worrying. (Or, when their owner shows up with a shotgun).

Arrowman · 10-21-2002, 10:25 PM

galiel:

I wish I could find an appropriate Gary Larson cartoon to post at this point!

Amos:

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos:
<strong>It is wrong for you to question sacret cows for the simple reason that they are obviously not your cows.</strong>

But seriously - Dumb ideas (ie sacred cows) are not immune from questioning and criticism just because they are "not yours". Are you saying that Hitler's ideology (sorry to use that tired old example but it's an easy one, I guess) should not have been questioned by those outside the Nazi Party / Germany?

In any case - this particular "sacred cow" was not the exclusive "property" as it were, of the Catholic Church. Her actions adversely affected many people outside her religious group, and she took money from people of all faiths. If she was ever entitled to "sacred cow" status within the Catholic Church (I do not agree), she gave up that protection when she started dealing so callously with the lives of others.

Quote:

If you want to begrudge somebody just go to Margareth Mead, who was proven wrong by a fellow country man of yours after she had received 20 or so honorary PhD's. Hers was truly a scam and the ethical question became if they should be revoked or not.

Sure. But the existence of other sacred cows does not excuse the one in question. We're not talking about Margaret Mead. We're talking about Mother Teresa.

Quote:

Mother Theresa herself was not interested in the rewards but just took the money and left. Smart girl, I think.

Well, as I understand it she didn't just "take the money and run" - she "took the money and didn't use it" - not necessarily out of any overtly evil intent, but out of sheer blind lunatic theology. Not smart. Dumb, perhaps. But reprehensible, certainly. I will not excuse her because her blindness was caused by religion.

Quote:

So if anything, the fame and recognition bestowed was just done by another bunch of educated people.

All the more reason the question the "sacred cow" - because a lot of otherwise rational people were sucked in by it.

Thor Q. Mada · 10-21-2002, 10:27 PM

Corgan Sow,

Before you defend this old peasant woman, do your homework please, and don't give in to myth making, truth bending nonsense.

Thanks

Arrowman · 10-21-2002, 10:29 PM

Corgan: There are several points in your last post with which I would take issue, but I will reserve comment until/if you return to the discussion (perhaps with comments on the links I provided). Your call as to whether you wish to continue. Your thread, in fact - so I hope you do

Buffman · 10-21-2002, 10:48 PM

Amos

If you want to begrudge somebody just go to Margareth Mead, who was proven wrong by a fellow country man of yours after she had received 20 or so honorary PhD's. Hers was truly a scam and the ethical question became if they should be revoked or not.

Might I recommend you do a little more research/homework before claiming that Derek Freeman has "proved" anything. Thanks.

<a href="http://womenshistory.about.com/library/bio/blbio_margaret_mead.htm" target="_blank">http://womenshistory.about.com/library/bio/blbio_margaret_mead.htm</a>

<a href="http://womenshistory.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.findarticles.com/cf%5F0/m2843/n6%5Fv22/21275523/p1/article.jhtml" target="_blank">http://womenshistory.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.findarticles.com/cf%5F0/m2843/n6%5Fv22/21275523/p1/article.jhtml</a>

Arrowman · 10-21-2002, 11:10 PM

I'd just like to add that when I said "Sure..." at the start of my response to Amos' "Margaret Mead" assertion, I did not mean to imply my full agreement with that assertion. I have not read enough on the subject to have a well-formed opinion. (Or, galiel, to get dogmatic about it

) A better word would have been "whatever". Whether Margaret Mead is an "exposed sacred cow" or not, is not the point. We're talking about Tess-Baby here.

Ronin · 10-22-2002, 12:49 AM

Is there ever an end to our searching, and if there is will 'that' not be the real question we should seek to get answered?

Here is my next question ~

What?

Corgan Sow · 10-22-2002, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Corgan Sow,
Before you defend this old peasant woman, do your homework please, and don't give in to myth making, truth bending nonsense.

Thanks

No, not really. I'm not a person who will bluntly switch sides just like that. However, I also find it puzzling, like I said, that a harmless, naive devoted woman like MT who is committed to improve the poor, gets unnecessary flames.

I did, and I was shocked to find so many articles relating this issue in search engines. Actually I understand that these flames came because MT's blind adherence to Catholic dogmas, and practicing a fucked-up form of religious extremism which requires absolute "faith" in God until one's health and well being totally devatated. Recycling used strynges, condemning "comfort" as an unforgivable sin, and MT mandatory requirement to her disciples to live like a dog...it is truly shocking.

Honestly, I do not know what to say. And where did the money go after her death?

Bloop · 10-22-2002, 01:58 AM

Quote:

FI: How much money do you reckon she receives?

HITCHENS: Well, I have the testimony of a former very active member of her Order who worked for her for many years and ended up in the office Mother Teresa maintains in New York City. She was in charge of taking the money to the bank. She estimates that there must be $50 million in that bank account alone. She said that one of the things that began to raise doubts in her mind was that the Sisters always had to go around pretending that they were very poor and they couldn't use the money for anything in the neighborhood that required alleviation. Under the cloak of avowed poverty they were still soliciting donations, labor, food, and so on from local merchants. This she found as a matter of conscience to be offensive.

Now if that is the case for one place in New York, and since we know what huge sums she has been given by institutions like the Nobel Peace committee, other religious institutions, secular prize-giving organizations, and so on, we can speculate that if this money was being used for the relief of suffering we would be able to see the effect.

FI: So the $50 million is a very small portion of her wealth?

HITCHENS: I think it's a very small portion, and we should call for an audit of her organization. She carefully doesn't keep the money in India because the Indian government requires disclosure of foreign missionary organizations funds.

I think the answer to questions about her wealth was given by her in an interview where she said she had opened convents and nunneries in 120 countries. The money has simply been used for the greater glory of her order and the building of dogmatic, religious institutions.

from:

<a href="http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/hitchens_16_4.html" target="_blank">Interview with Christopher Hitchens</a>

If there was 50 million $ sitting in the NY account alone, it really boggles the mind what say, the Red Cross or why not a christian charity organisation that actually buys stuff for the money they receive could have done with that kind of money.

*Ka-ching* for Jeebus

Kama · 10-22-2002, 04:11 PM

For the sake of Judging Others

Journalist Christopher Hitchens: from "left" charlatan to mouthpiece for the Republican right
<a href="http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/nov2000/hitc-n27.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/nov2000/hitc-n27.shtml</a>

Journalist Christopher Hitchens explains why he�s no longer a socialist, why moral authoritarianism is on the rise, and what's wrong with anti-globalization protestors.

<a href="http://reason.com/0111/fe.rs.free.shtml" target="_blank">http://reason.com/0111/fe.rs.free.shtml</a>
Clinton,Kissinger et al prostrate before me arse

The grunt
<a href="http://www.medill.northwestern.edu/inside/2001/pix/hitchens-185x151.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.medill.northwestern.edu/inside/2001/pix/hitchens-185x151.jpg</a>

<a href="http://www.newstatesman.co.uk/199905100045.htm" target="_blank">http://www.newstatesman.co.uk/199905100045.htm</a>
Christopher Hitchens has captured the niche of the Darwinian finch that shits everywhere, then rolls in his own excrement.

Any know what happened or where is Ms Shields nowadays?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

10-21-2002, 10:27 PM	#23
Thor Q. Mada Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Asia Posts: 3,558	Corgan Sow, Before you defend this old peasant woman, do your homework please, and don't give in to myth making, truth bending nonsense. Thanks

10-21-2002, 10:29 PM	#24
Arrowman Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 1,358	Corgan: There are several points in your last post with which I would take issue, but I will reserve comment until/if you return to the discussion (perhaps with comments on the links I provided). Your call as to whether you wish to continue. Your thread, in fact - so I hope you do

10-21-2002, 10:48 PM	#25
Buffman Beloved Deceased Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central Florida Posts: 3,546	Amos If you want to begrudge somebody just go to Margareth Mead, who was proven wrong by a fellow country man of yours after she had received 20 or so honorary PhD's. Hers was truly a scam and the ethical question became if they should be revoked or not. Might I recommend you do a little more research/homework before claiming that Derek Freeman has "proved" anything. Thanks. <a href="http://womenshistory.about.com/library/bio/blbio_margaret_mead.htm" target="_blank">http://womenshistory.about.com/library/bio/blbio_margaret_mead.htm</a> <a href="http://womenshistory.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.findarticles.com/cf%5F0/m2843/n6%5Fv22/21275523/p1/article.jhtml" target="_blank">http://womenshistory.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.findarticles.com/cf%5F0/m2843/n6%5Fv22/21275523/p1/article.jhtml</a>

10-21-2002, 11:10 PM	#26
Arrowman Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 1,358	I'd just like to add that when I said "Sure..." at the start of my response to Amos' "Margaret Mead" assertion, I did not mean to imply my full agreement with that assertion. I have not read enough on the subject to have a well-formed opinion. (Or, galiel, to get dogmatic about it ) A better word would have been "whatever". Whether Margaret Mead is an "exposed sacred cow" or not, is not the point. We're talking about Tess-Baby here.

10-22-2002, 12:49 AM	#27
Ronin Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 5,047	Is there ever an end to our searching, and if there is will 'that' not be the real question we should seek to get answered? Here is my next question ~ What?

10-22-2002, 04:11 PM	#30
Kama Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: swarga Posts: 19	For the sake of Judging Others Journalist Christopher Hitchens: from "left" charlatan to mouthpiece for the Republican right <a href="http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/nov2000/hitc-n27.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/nov2000/hitc-n27.shtml</a> Journalist Christopher Hitchens explains why he�s no longer a socialist, why moral authoritarianism is on the rise, and what's wrong with anti-globalization protestors. <a href="http://reason.com/0111/fe.rs.free.shtml" target="_blank">http://reason.com/0111/fe.rs.free.shtml</a> Clinton,Kissinger et al prostrate before me arse The grunt <a href="http://www.medill.northwestern.edu/inside/2001/pix/hitchens-185x151.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.medill.northwestern.edu/inside/2001/pix/hitchens-185x151.jpg</a> <a href="http://www.newstatesman.co.uk/199905100045.htm" target="_blank">http://www.newstatesman.co.uk/199905100045.htm</a> Christopher Hitchens has captured the niche of the Darwinian finch that shits everywhere, then rolls in his own excrement. Any know what happened or where is Ms Shields nowadays?

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.