Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Corwin · 06-26-2003, 08:33 AM

Quote:

obviously you didn't live through the 80's.

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

Come on people.... mismatched shirts and such are the classic sign of a bachelor. It's how women know which men are available.

jess · 06-26-2003, 10:45 AM

goodness... I remembered this being a cute little thread and wanted to post today about how I married one...

and then we get all this?

yikes.

first of all,

Quote:

That's one less guy wearing some hideous exercise outfit/too-small bathing suit/wife-beater/plumber's pants/Mr. T chains/sweatpants/etc you have to look at while wandering down the boardwalk. If that's masculinity, I'd rather be effiminate!
[

That's also vain. Any guy who honestly thinks he has to dress that way to be a guy is 'vain'. Any guy who thinks he looks fine in jeans and last night's shirt and a quick swipe of a razor (with notable exceptions, of course...) is fooling himself.

Anyone who thinks the 80's were about clashing colors is plain silly.

Anyone who thinks a man is less of a man for being into shopping and looking good is silly.

My husband is a metrosexual. He has been called 'not a real man' by some men. hmmmm.... mainly the guys I dumped to marry him...

He has long hair he wears in a braid down his back. It is not its natural color. He occasionally wears Urban Decay Uzi nailpolish. He owns a pair of black parachute pants he still fits into, and a pair of hematite vinyl jeans. He never wears shorts because his knees are unattractive to him. He has an awesome sense of color in clothing, and a very old fashioned sense of style.

He's on a first name basis with the local tuxedo shop owner, and if we have a dressy event to go to, will bring his chosen suit to the store to get the perfect shirt. Last wedding we went to, his shirt cost more than my outfit. He didn't buy it because it cost, he bought it because it looked good. And man, did it look good.

He wears ties because he likes to. He wears lace up shoes on good occasions. He wears makeup out clubbing. He carries an atomizer of his cologne with him.

Does that make him not a man?

He spent his teen and college years as a maintanence worker--- meaning he can handle all the plumbing, carpentry and other basic work around the house. He's a small engine mechanic, and is currently rebuilding my carburator. He takes martial arts classes, and plays soccer. And he is the best lay I have ever had.

Does that make him a man?

When our dog was very ill with a long illness that finally killed him, I watched as my husband set up a tarp so the dog wouldn't have to climb the stairs to go to the bathroom, and as he held the dog up so he could go when he was too weak to stand. The dog died in his arms.

That's what makes him a man.

The man could wear a pink lace tutu in public and still be a real man, as far as I am concerned.

August Spies · 06-26-2003, 10:59 AM

Jess just to clarify a couple things directed at me:

Anyone who thinks the 80's were about clashing colors is plain silly.

I lived through the 80's. Anyone who doesnt' think clashing colors was a huge trend was living somewhere else. obviusly there were lots of trends in the 80s, so I am not saying all of them were like this by any means, but many styles featured clashing colors. Go watch VH1's I love the 80s.

Anyone who thinks a man is less of a man for being into shopping and looking good is silly.

I don't think anyone said that. I think anyone who spends lots of time shopping and "looking good" is less of a person. Man or woman.

Does that make him not a man?

All I will say is, that for my part it has nothing to do with being "effeminate" or "not manly" enough, it is that they are vacant, vain, and boring people. At least the ones I know, and I know a lot.

jess · 06-26-2003, 11:19 AM

August: not only did I live through the 80's, I still have the clothes. The colors weren't supposed to clash, they were supposed to contrast. There is and was a huge difference.

And how can you say a legal hobby makes someone less of a person? Just because you don't agree doesn't make them less of a person...

August Spies · 06-26-2003, 11:28 AM

Jess:

Quote:

And how can you say a legal hobby makes someone less of a person?

a legal hobby? uh... what does that have to do with anything? My point was mainly that I think it is as vacant for women to do it as it is for men to do it. The only difference is I can cut women some slack since society as a whole forces it on them, men who do it get no slack from me.

Regardless, I was saying it makes them less of a person to me not that it objectivly makes them less of a person. Anyone who spends large portions of time and money on these things is obviosly not spending it on more importan things. Anyone obsessed with their apperance to such a point has serious problems with who they are, or at best is merely following the latest trend.

I will amend my statement though. "less of a person" is pretty harsh.

Doing that type of stuff typically means you are a more vacant, boring, vain and overall uninteresting person. Man or woman.

Silent Acorns · 06-26-2003, 02:17 PM

Speaking as guy who wears white shoes 12 months a year (primarily because the best shoe for my somewhat flat feet is a running shoe that only comes in white - actually it's white/grey/black), I'd like these questions answered:

- Does the "no white shoes" rule only apply to solid white shoes?

- If the rule is due to seasonal changes, does it also apply in Australia? Do they have a "no white shoes after Easter" rule?

Bunny Lover · 06-26-2003, 02:20 PM

Hello,

miss djax, would you like to know our secret of messy boy hair?

Step 1: Exit shower
Step 2: Dry hair with towel
Step 3: Don't touch it.

Well buy me a turtleneck and call me Raul, I'm a stylist!

CosmicGame · 06-26-2003, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jess
goodness... I remembered this being a cute little thread and wanted to post today about how I married one...

and then we get all this?

yikes.

first of all,

That's also vain. Any guy who honestly thinks he has to dress that way to be a guy is 'vain'. Any guy who thinks he looks fine in jeans and last night's shirt and a quick swipe of a razor (with notable exceptions, of course...) is fooling himself.

Anyone who thinks the 80's were about clashing colors is plain silly.

Anyone who thinks a man is less of a man for being into shopping and looking good is silly.

My husband is a metrosexual. He has been called 'not a real man' by some men. hmmmm.... mainly the guys I dumped to marry him...

He has long hair he wears in a braid down his back. It is not its natural color. He occasionally wears Urban Decay Uzi nailpolish. He owns a pair of black parachute pants he still fits into, and a pair of hematite vinyl jeans. He never wears shorts because his knees are unattractive to him. He has an awesome sense of color in clothing, and a very old fashioned sense of style.

He's on a first name basis with the local tuxedo shop owner, and if we have a dressy event to go to, will bring his chosen suit to the store to get the perfect shirt. Last wedding we went to, his shirt cost more than my outfit. He didn't buy it because it cost, he bought it because it looked good. And man, did it look good.

He wears ties because he likes to. He wears lace up shoes on good occasions. He wears makeup out clubbing. He carries an atomizer of his cologne with him.

Does that make him not a man?

He spent his teen and college years as a maintanence worker--- meaning he can handle all the plumbing, carpentry and other basic work around the house. He's a small engine mechanic, and is currently rebuilding my carburator. He takes martial arts classes, and plays soccer. And he is the best lay I have ever had.

Does that make him a man?

When our dog was very ill with a long illness that finally killed him, I watched as my husband set up a tarp so the dog wouldn't have to climb the stairs to go to the bathroom, and as he held the dog up so he could go when he was too weak to stand. The dog died in his arms.

That's what makes him a man.

The man could wear a pink lace tutu in public and still be a real man, as far as I am concerned.

Damn, jess, that was beautiful! Mind if I keep this post somewhere on my hard drive for future reference? I think it's probably the most definitive statement I've ever seen about what a "man" is. When my son asks me eventually what it means to be a man, I'd like to able to tell him something like this.

And I'm with you on the whole metrosexual issue. This was a cute little thread, and then it got hijacked by some people who are just intensely uncomfortable with guys who are just being themselves. I knew and loved plenty of straight guys in college who could tell me in a heartbeat what not to wear and why. Dunno why this is so threatening to some people. Now the second that metrosecual men start having body image issues like some women do, I'll say it's gone too far. But for now, live and let style, folks!

Jennifer

August Spies · 06-26-2003, 05:31 PM

Quote:

it got hijacked by some people who are just intensely uncomfortable with guys who are just being themselves[...]Dunno why this is so threatening to some people.

what on earth are you talking about? Doesn't seem like anyone here is feeling uncomfortable or threatened except Jess for some reason.

and you don't think there are men with body image problems like women? You should get out a little more.

also, from the article in the OP:

Quote:

the number of plastic surgery procedures on men in the United States has increased threefold since 1997, to 807,000, according to the American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery.

this is a great development.

Bunny Lover · 06-26-2003, 05:41 PM

Hello,

I'm also having difficulty understanding why this thread became so ugly. If a guy feels better about himself by dressing pretty and fussing with his hair, more power to him. In fact, it's still cool even if he's defining himself according women's tastes. How is that any different from any of the countless stupid things males do to attract the opposite sex?

Would I personally adopt this behavior in favor of our culture's men-can-look-like-whatever-and-it's-still-cool standards? Heh, what do you think?

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06-26-2003, 10:59 AM	#33
August Spies Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The Vine Posts: 12,950	Jess just to clarify a couple things directed at me: Anyone who thinks the 80's were about clashing colors is plain silly. I lived through the 80's. Anyone who doesnt' think clashing colors was a huge trend was living somewhere else. obviusly there were lots of trends in the 80s, so I am not saying all of them were like this by any means, but many styles featured clashing colors. Go watch VH1's I love the 80s. Anyone who thinks a man is less of a man for being into shopping and looking good is silly. I don't think anyone said that. I think anyone who spends lots of time shopping and "looking good" is less of a person. Man or woman. Does that make him not a man? All I will say is, that for my part it has nothing to do with being "effeminate" or "not manly" enough, it is that they are vacant, vain, and boring people. At least the ones I know, and I know a lot.

06-26-2003, 11:19 AM	#34
jess Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: rationalpagans.com Posts: 7,400	August: not only did I live through the 80's, I still have the clothes. The colors weren't supposed to clash, they were supposed to contrast. There is and was a huge difference. And how can you say a legal hobby makes someone less of a person? Just because you don't agree doesn't make them less of a person...

06-26-2003, 02:17 PM	#36
Silent Acorns Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: SW 31 52 24W4 Posts: 1,508	Speaking as guy who wears white shoes 12 months a year (primarily because the best shoe for my somewhat flat feet is a running shoe that only comes in white - actually it's white/grey/black), I'd like these questions answered: - Does the "no white shoes" rule only apply to solid white shoes? - If the rule is due to seasonal changes, does it also apply in Australia? Do they have a "no white shoes after Easter" rule?

06-26-2003, 02:20 PM	#37
Bunny Lover Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 146	Hello, miss djax, would you like to know our secret of messy boy hair? Step 1: Exit shower Step 2: Dry hair with towel Step 3: Don't touch it. Well buy me a turtleneck and call me Raul, I'm a stylist!

06-26-2003, 05:41 PM	#40
Bunny Lover Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 146	Hello, I'm also having difficulty understanding why this thread became so ugly. If a guy feels better about himself by dressing pretty and fussing with his hair, more power to him. In fact, it's still cool even if he's defining himself according women's tastes. How is that any different from any of the countless stupid things males do to attract the opposite sex? Would I personally adopt this behavior in favor of our culture's men-can-look-like-whatever-and-it's-still-cool standards? Heh, what do you think?

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