Freethought & Rationalism Archive

pz · 08-29-2002, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scientiae:

Awww... what cowards.

And now In Christ Douglas has announced his exit, in a <a href="http://www.arn.org/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=000303" target="_blank">bizarre post that includes his prophecy of the coming Rapture</a>.

What a wacky bunch those ARN fellas are.

Principia · 08-29-2002, 08:42 PM

pz,

You may have missed the brief stint ICD had at Infidels, in which he went through his whole package of mental illnesses. For instance, just sample <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=47&t=000272&p=" target="_blank">this</a> -- about 12 posts down. Douglas was all about trying to get attention to his own views, including his infamous "Biblical Equations" that supposedly proved the existence of God. It is for that reason, he will probably not be missed at ARN.

Douglas's departure has its disadvantages. For one thing, there was noone better than ICD to keep the YECs uneasy of their own idiocy. nobody, the troll that does the "incredible programming by G O D" crap, will probably step up, but still, ICD was rather unique in his arrogance and ignorance. For the other, the recent stream of fundies departing ARN might actually be perceived by lurkers that there is some sort of Christian-bashing going on, which can only play into the persecution-paranoid fundies (or maybe it's persecution-loving sadists?). On the other hand, ICD won't be around to provide the distractions that the IDi[s]ts desperately need to divert the ID critics.

In any case, the IDi[s]ts want nothing more than to make a scapegoat out of one of the Infidels. This thread is probably just the ammo for their anti-science, anti-knowledge campaign.

EDIT: Forget defending yourself, over there. Let it drop, pz. Douglas has a history that everybody knows about.

[ August 29, 2002: Message edited by: Scientiae ]

pz · 08-29-2002, 08:55 PM

Another disadvantage: he's now being treated as a martyr to the cause. They're glossing over his glaring lunacy and making him over as yet another poor victim driven into the wilderness by those dogmatic scientists.

They really ought to recruit more mentally unstable fruitcakes who will burn-out and self-destruct -- every one can be another data point to bolster their already hyper-inflated persecution complex.

Principia · 08-29-2002, 09:11 PM

See, so <a href="http://www.arn.org/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=000017" target="_blank">predictable</a>:

Quote:

Mike Gene, Alpha: One thing you can do is copy and save the "sneers and jeers." Then, after acquiring a dozen or so, start a Sneers And Jeers thread in the off-topic forum. It would be funny to read all the sneers and jeers en masse, as it would clearly undercut the attempts to posture as open- and fair-minded inquirers. And if the list of sneers and jeers is dominated by certain individuals, it will become clear that those persons have no credibility around here and are just trolls.

So start collecting your Sneers and Jeers today!

In fact, we could collect other techniques also:

The Smartie-Pants Manuever - here the poster lets everyone know that he/she is The Expert and we're all supposed to agree because of this.

The Psychic Play - here the poster claims special knowledge of someone else's motivations/intentions.

The Archie Bunker - here the poster relies on stereotypes when framing his/her argument.

The Wedgie - Complaining about the tired old dog, The Wedge

Any others?

The first to spot, collect and paste a Sneer, Jeer, Archie, etc. gets to claim ownership. Then, we can trade them with each other. Y'know, I have two Archies and a Wedgie. I'll trade them for Nobody's Three Sneers.

I myself do have an ongoing list to post sometime in the future - nothin' more than quotes from our beloved critics.

Well, that explains why ID has been so slow to get anything done scientifically -- they're all too busy keeping tabs on the ID critics.

[ August 29, 2002: Message edited by: Scientiae ]

pangloss · 08-30-2002, 05:44 AM

Wow - looks like "Asshole Mike" can really project with the best of them. It must be some sort of character trait - HE does all of those things! HE is the 'armchair psychoanalyst', posting his stupid, self-serving, poor-me-against-the-conspiracy drivel.

And I see an allusion ot me - re: when poor widdle 'Pinky' died and I was - gasp! - insensitive!

That, of course, created a fusillade of letters to the 'moderator' asking that I be banned, because they all loved Duane 'Pinky' so much... And inspired 'Light Panther' to engage in some classic creationistic ad hom quoting:

*****************************************

Quote:

Originally posted by JP:
If that is the case I think banning Scott was inappropriate… I think moderating should be reserved for people who post curse words and direct attacks on people, not silly stuff like this.

And what about this....?
Mr Page[sic]:-

Quote:

quote:

You must be a real charmer. I know some "trailer trash" that have more up to 8 kids with 3 or 4 differnt women. Perhaps natural selection will favor them over the Ultra-orthodox Jews?

*******************************************

Original context?

<a href="http://www.arn.org/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000028" target="_blank">http://www.arn.org/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000028</a>
I had written, in response to “Full of himself Mike”:
“You are fairly full of yourself, aren't you?”

“dennist” responds:
“Maybe so, but I'll bet lots more women would rather spend an evening with him than with you.
Less importantly, I've learned alot from him, but I wish he'd spend more time on posts like his T files than with fencing with his critics. “
Now, dennist was referring to someone named “Gerry”. I replied:

Originally posted by dennist:
Maybe so, but I'll bet lots more women would rather spend an evening with him than with you.

What an odd thing to say...

Dennist responds:
Not an odd thing to say.
Natural selection surely favors those who have more children.
Ultra-orthodox Jews have between 5 and 10 children. Modern Orthodox between 4 and 6, usually. Gerry has 5. Two boys, three girls. All good looking and charming. Less importantly, they are all as sharp as tacks. Bright, educated, with scientific asperations.
A few of my friends have 4. I have more, from two wives and other women.
Here's where Christian creationists don't follow the Bible. "Be fruitful and multiply," we're commanded by the Holy One, Blessed Be He. Of all the rabbinic discussions I've read, the minimum is one child of each sex. But most interpretations specify more. Creationists typically have more children than secular people, but certainly not enough to fulfill the commandment, on average. Bad boys and girls. How many do you have, Creationist?

I replied:

Quote:

A few of my friends have 4. I have more, from two wives and other women.

You must be a real charmer. I know some "trailer trash" that have more up to 8 kids with 3 or 4 differnt women. Perhaps natural selection will favor them over the Ultra-orthodox Jews?

********************************************

From there, ‘Light Panther’ rips a quote to make me look like a certain Idiot…

Common practice in the anti-science crowd…

But, facts is facts - Pinky was a jerk. His death did not change that.
I got banned BEFORE I even had a chance to retract my statements - not that I would have.

What a bunch of whining pussies.

And Dougie Bender - can that jackass be any stupider?

[ August 30, 2002: Message edited by: pangloss ]

[ August 30, 2002: Message edited by: pangloss ]

pangloss · 08-30-2002, 06:05 AM

oops

[ August 30, 2002: Message edited by: pangloss ]

pangloss · 08-30-2002, 06:16 AM

Another classic example of projection form Asshole Mike Gene:

"The Sigmund - making mental health diagnoses without a license."

Hmmm...

How many times has he posted tripe about the mental states of those who would dare oppose him?

With champions like Vivid and nobody, I'm sure the IDeology will thrive when it is exposed to the light of day....

Principia · 08-31-2002, 05:53 PM

And there we have it, Mike Gene's <a href="http://www.arn.org/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000123" target="_blank">defense</a> of Douglas's mental health:

Quote:

No, I do not think Douglas is mentally ill. Or better put, there is simply no evidence that he is mentally ill.
Let's calmly and rationally consider the problems pz had with Douglas' posting to illustrate why an accusation of mental illness was unwarranted, and thus a sleazy ad hom.

Let's consider pz's "objective" analysis:

A guy can stomp off in a huff because somebody called him "doug" instead of "douglas", while claiming he doesn't have time for the internet anyway, since he's on an apocalyptic personal mission for god as prophesied in the bible, and suggesting that maybe he needs to see a psychiatrist is overreaching.

Maybe your standards for mental stability are so low that you have no problem with In Christ Douglas's tirade, which is rather sad, but mine aren't. I'll take that sigmund and wear it with pride.

First, it seems clear to me that pz is misrepresenting the issue surrounding the names. It is well known to many of us regulars that Douglas did not like to be called "Doug." In the past, when he has made this clear to newbies, reasonable people have acknowledged his request. Now, I have known plenty of normal people who prefer to be called this or that, thus this is not a mental health issue. The problem came when Principia purposefully decided to provoke Douglas by referring to him many times, in bold, as "Doug." This was a childish taunting. Nevertheless, my guess is that Principia succeeded in his attempt to get under Douglas' skin and Douglas began to feel personal animosity toward Principia. Being a religious person, Douglas probably "caught himself" feeling tempted to return Principia's personal attack with personal attacks of his own and thus reassessed his priorities. Since he felt the moderators were not going to police such taunting, and didn't like the negative feelings he experienced that were brought about by the taunting (the desire to attack other people), he decided to leave. Bottom line? It wasn't simply about "A guy can stomp off in a huff because somebody called him "doug"" That's a superficial, ham-handed account.

Secondly., there's the "apocalyptic personal mission for god as prophesied in the bible." Fifi nicely and calmly refutes the attempt to equate Douglas' religious expression with mental illness, so there is not much to add here. One of the reasons I asked both you and pz about prayer is because attempts to equate Douglas' religious experience with mental illness easily slip into a position whereby all religious people are mentally ill. For this reason, both you and pz have refused to address my questions. Labeling Douglas as mentally ill is like labeling the Amish as being mentally ill because they dress differently and still use horse and buggies. I really encourage you guys to learn the importance of tolerance.

Look, if we're supposed to put Douglas' mental health on trial, I see no reason why we can't do the same with people like pz and principia. We could start talking about unhealthy obsessions with other personalities and move on to an inability to control one's emotional impulses, even to the point where one will sacrifice their credibility if they can't be mean. We can then move on to explore the cause behind this unhealthy hostility regarding religious people. All of this can be tied into a concept of mental health.

Don't worry moderators. I am not going to do this. I'm just pointing out that the sword cuts both ways.

In other words, it was no defense, but more whining. As I suspected, we all knew DJB was mentally ill. But, <applause> for MG's valiant effort.

[ August 31, 2002: Message edited by: Scientiae ]

pz · 08-31-2002, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scientiae:
And there we have it, Mike Gene's <a href="http://www.arn.org/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000123" target="_blank">defense</a> of Douglas's mental health:

What I find particularly galling is that I was specifically told by the moderators at ARN not to discuss this matter, and Mike Gene has been sniping at me on the topic all day long, knowing that I can't reply to him. Here he even dishonestly claims that "For this reason [that we can't deal with the implications], both you and pz have refused to address my questions". That's not true, and he knows it: I can't address them because to do so would contradict the moderator's request.

He's a lying coward, as well as a science poseur. What a fraud.

Principia · 08-31-2002, 06:16 PM

I showed the thread to my psychiatrist friend. He rolled his eyes and chuckled. "Pop psychology" was what he called it.

08-29-2002, 08:42 PM	#142
Principia Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: anywhere Posts: 1,976	pz, You may have missed the brief stint ICD had at Infidels, in which he went through his whole package of mental illnesses. For instance, just sample <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=47&t=000272&p=" target="_blank">this</a> -- about 12 posts down. Douglas was all about trying to get attention to his own views, including his infamous "Biblical Equations" that supposedly proved the existence of God. It is for that reason, he will probably not be missed at ARN. Douglas's departure has its disadvantages. For one thing, there was noone better than ICD to keep the YECs uneasy of their own idiocy. nobody, the troll that does the "incredible programming by G O D" crap, will probably step up, but still, ICD was rather unique in his arrogance and ignorance. For the other, the recent stream of fundies departing ARN might actually be perceived by lurkers that there is some sort of Christian-bashing going on, which can only play into the persecution-paranoid fundies (or maybe it's persecution-loving sadists?). On the other hand, ICD won't be around to provide the distractions that the IDi[s]ts desperately need to divert the ID critics. In any case, the IDi[s]ts want nothing more than to make a scapegoat out of one of the Infidels. This thread is probably just the ammo for their anti-science, anti-knowledge campaign. EDIT: Forget defending yourself, over there. Let it drop, pz. Douglas has a history that everybody knows about. [ August 29, 2002: Message edited by: Scientiae ]</p>

08-30-2002, 06:05 AM	#146
pangloss Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,302	oops [ August 30, 2002: Message edited by: pangloss ]</p>

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08-29-2002, 08:55 PM	#143
pz Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Morris, MN Posts: 3,341	Another disadvantage: he's now being treated as a martyr to the cause. They're glossing over his glaring lunacy and making him over as yet another poor victim driven into the wilderness by those dogmatic scientists. They really ought to recruit more mentally unstable fruitcakes who will burn-out and self-destruct -- every one can be another data point to bolster their already hyper-inflated persecution complex.

08-30-2002, 06:16 AM	#147
pangloss Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,302	Another classic example of projection form Asshole Mike Gene: "The Sigmund - making mental health diagnoses without a license." Hmmm... How many times has he posted tripe about the mental states of those who would dare oppose him? With champions like Vivid and nobody, I'm sure the IDeology will thrive when it is exposed to the light of day....

08-31-2002, 06:16 PM	#150
Principia Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: anywhere Posts: 1,976	I showed the thread to my psychiatrist friend. He rolled his eyes and chuckled. "Pop psychology" was what he called it.

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