brighid

I would agree with that percentage. I am under the impression you are male, correct? Your experience is likely to be much different then a female, at least if the guys I have talked to on this subject are typical of what internet dating is like. The guys still do the vast majority of the pursuing and I only contacted a handful of guys, because frankly I didn't need to. I had my hands full and while at matchmaker.com I received something like 5,000 + letters. It was daunting. (I met my husband through one and only, but I didn't like there service as much as matchmaker. I now have a few friends trying eharmony.)

I learned a few things that you might find helpful. Never, ever accept an old picture from someone. If it isn't recent they are likely hiding something (weight gain, balding, etc.) Every friggin time I did this I got burned. Yes, physical appearance matters but personality is important too. If someone isn't honest about his/her appearance it makes me wonder what else they aren't being entirely truthful about ... not a good way to begin a friendship or a relationship.

Be honest and creative in your survey questions - humor and intelligent responses earn you brownie points. If some potential partner doesn't like you for who you are then you haven't wasted your time ... but if you aren't honest it can turn into something unfortunate later on.

I had a lot of fun dates, most didn't go past two or three because it was about then one or both of us simply decided we weren't compatible for a long-term relationship. I met some really cool guys, and I also met some of the world's biggest jerks and some damned freaky freaks (not in person though.)

It can be a painful experience though because at the same time you are meeting hordes of people, you may experience rejection at a similar scale. It's kinda like speed dating I suppose.

It's great that you are taking Latin dance! It is very sexy, fun, a great workout and it should provide you with more then a few opportunities to at least dance with some fine ladies. Hopefully it will lead to more.

Best Wishes!

Brighid

RevDahlia

Back when I was dating I had good luck with Nerve. They use the same system as Salon, the Onion, et cetera. Lots of smart, hip folks on there.

I know several people who have found permanent partners through Craigslist. A good bet if you're in a major city.

Barney Gumble

Where's that vomiting emoticon when I need it...

brighid

BibleHumper,

I am going to agree with some of the other posters that your approach leaves something to be desired, especially when you refer to women as "targets" and you encourage guys to continue pushing even if a girl seems uninterested or uncomfortable.

There is only one time I can recall where I wished a guy had continued passed the first awkward moments, but frankly I was so stunned that this particular guy was talking to me that I probably had this really odd look on my face. For a moment I couldn't even speak and I honestly didn't realize until he walked away (probably down trodden) that he was actually coming on to me. It was a statement made in passing (in the train station) and I was caught off guard.

However, if a girl is visibly uncomfortable after initial conversation and doesn't appear interested I would say that 9 times out of 10 she doesn't want to talk with whom ever is approaching her. This maybe a personal rejection, or it may not be. Continuing to pursue her is disrespectful (even if some stupid women play coy.) It would royally piss me off and if my attempts at a polite let down were not headed I would then resort to a less pleasant mode of discourse.

We certainly aren't "targets" to be acquired, and this sort of philosophy is part and parcel for the defensive posturing many men receive in bar/club situations. I am not here to score points for a man's ego, put a notch in bed post, etc. unless of course I decide that IS what I want to do. Then I will carve my name in his bed post for posterity!

Also the cheesy line, or immediately asking if a woman has a boyfriend is that neon sign stating he probably just wants to fuck (in a bar/club situation.)

Maybe the women I have hung around with are different because we are rather a direct bunch, and maybe the average woman is just so radically different that such ploys are required.

Brighid

lisarea

Some women are. Some are not. I'm not. And I find your suggestions creepy.

Really creepy.

This is less of a problem now that I'm older. But I have never gone to nightclubs with any regularity. Maybe ten times total in my life. If I'd liked to dance, I probably would have, though, and I genuinely feel for uninterested women who do go out dancing. That must suck but hard.

Still, I've been on the receiving end of tactics like you're suggesting, and they're creepy. I hate them. They make me nervous, they scare me sometimes, and I thorougly HATE having to try to find some clever way to get out of the situation. Hate it.

I was raised to be polite to people. I often wish I hadn't been, because it gets me in sticky situations, where very persistent types use that against me to try to insinuate themselves into some kind of 'intimacy' or something I have no interest in pursuing.

I've been followed down dark streets, cornered in bars (like, casual, neighborhood pool joints--not singles bars), dogged around in grocery stores and restaurants and public transportation, and at work too many times to count. WHY? Why the hell can't I go out and do the shit I need and want to do without running into some Mr. Smoove who has deemed me fuckable? WHY?

And somehow, I'm supposed to know that they're trying to get laid, and find some gentle and polite way out of it. Hey, maybe the guy who struck up a conversation about, say, PDAs really does want to talk about PDAs. I met a good bus buddy that way. He was NOT trying to pick me up. He was happily married with a new baby, and wanted to talk about gadgets. He struck up a conversation because he saw my gadgets, not as some kind of 'in.' We had a grand old time on the bus, beaming each other software and talking about dumb stuff. He ended up getting an atomic watch just like mine, even. I HATE that I had to be suspicious of him at first. Maybe the guy asking me about the book I'm reading really is interested in the topic. I HATE having to try to suss out what his intentions are. And goddammit, I don't care for wasting my pearls of wisdom on some guy who's just trying to manipulate me.

I'm not terribly social myself, but I can't resist a lively conversation with a kindred spirit every now and again. Get me all spun up about politics or technology or something, and I'm not going to notice any underlying motives.

I am not smooth. I am not slick. I am no better at social cues and signals than anyone. I am worse. And I hate hate HATE that I can't just go out and do the crap I need to do without getting cornered by people who want to socially engineer me.

Bible Humper

Well, it certainly is to my advantage to ease myself in rather than walk up directly and say hi. It is also to my advantage to make myself look the best I can.

Both of these things influence whether I'm successful or not, and have nothing to do with the "inner me". So what.

Many situations don't give a chance to be indirect, so I do use the direct way too. But you know what? Just walking up and saying hi to a woman going to pass on the street is a much lower % method. Why should this be so? Because in this case you have to break the ice in a direct and fast way, rather than let it melt at a somewhat slower pace.

Their initial reaction with the direct way is often at least somewhat defensive, so while avoiding that is much to my advantage, is avoiding an unnecessary disadvantage manipulative? I guess it is technically, but it isn't a bad thing at all.



Well, some people take longer to open up to a stranger. Give up early and you'll never know. Just because she isn't immediately responsive does not mean that she resents me talking to her at all. If a few did, so what? Once I know that continuing isn't going to lead anywhere I just leave.




She doesn't know if I'm going to hit on her or not at first, and neither do I necessarily. LOL

Some women turn out to be not worth my time, personality wise, and so I just leave them.

They are soon well aware of the fact that I'm interested anyways, but they find this out after the ice has been melted a bit, and I'm not worrying about stranger aversion any more. What's the problem with that?

It is obviously not possible to conduct a seduction without her knowing early that you are interested in her. This is only for getting over the hump at the beginning when she is biased against a stranger for reasons which are no fault of my own.

Hell yes, I see things differently! You seem to be a rather uptight guy to think this way.

I can't count the times that a stranger has talked or joked about something with me when we were both standing in a line somewhere. I see nothing wrong with this and would never think "Hey, this guy has no business talking to me, WTF".

We surely do see things differently.....



Well this is not what I do, you misunderstood. When I open I'm making a comment about the environment or situation, never something personal like that.

What you are talking about is the fluff talk, which comes AFTER she is comfortable and has opened up. They are HAPPY to talk about these things when I ask them at that point.

No wonder you thought I was rude, I agree that what you described is both ineffective and would make her uncomfortable too.



I am no longer a total stranger by the time I start fluffing.

Bible Humper

Hi Lisa,

You see, I'm being associated with a certain kind of behavior that I don't ever do. I'm not at all like these guys who you are thinking of.

I am very persistent about getting her opened, not persistent about getting intimate.

You are thinking about the drunken goons who try to be fresh with you, and seem to think that a woman will just give up and screw him if he just keeps it up. They say crap like like "Hey baby, we should hook up, me and you."
"Why don't you give me your number?"
"Come over here so we can talk"
"Why are you being like that?"
"Come on, what's wrong with you?"

This is not me.



Ugh, this is not me AT ALL. It is sleazoids like this who make women all defensive, and it is that impression that makes a direct approach by even quality men put her on guard immediately. I would never do this stuff, seriously.





This is a great story because it is not too dissimiar to how I conduct an opening.

If the guy in the example here ended up showing interest after this interaction, you would have been mad at him?

You shouldn't be, you two interacted and found each other good company and with some of the same interests. It would have been natural for him to see if there was any chance for him to take it further with this attractive, intelligent, and cool woman. Not creepy at all.

Even though this was probably a rare random event for this guy, triggered by his impulsive decision to comment on the PDA, the women I open have no reason to believe that it isn't that way with me too.

Bible Humper

Come on, now, I don't mean anything bad by calling them "targets".

And I encourage pushing when she is unresponsive, not uninterested or uncomfortable.

THANK YOU!

This is exacly why you don't bail just because she doesn't immediately open. This guy let a great opportunity to POSSIBLY become romantically involved with you pass out of his life without even knowing it.

He lost big time.



Well I would say that 9 and nine tenths times out of 10, LOL.

I'm nothing like the guys who Lisa described.

I think that you are reading into the word "target" something that isn't there.

And how would a man know if that IS what you want to do? Open of course! But as the guy in your earlier example shows, you can't know for sure by ejecting!

brighid

Okay, I probably am projecting my own ideas of "target" onto your real meaning. I appreciate the clarification. I will certainly take your word for it that you aren't like those creeps. Sometimes it is difficult to really understand someone's true meaning via the Internet without seeing facial expressions, hearing intonation, etc. No harm, no foul!

Brighid

Bible Humper

It's all cool, I should be glad that you spoke up because maybe others were thinking the same kind of thing but just didn't speak up.