Asha'man

Because that statement would simply be untrue. Not only that, it would be an unreasonable statement to make. If I can list something that would change my mind, then clearly I do not believe that nothing could make me change my mind.

My beliefs are ruled by the evidence provided, not by anything else. I have not “made up my mind,” I have reached a conclusion based on the evidence.

The evidence is quite clear: the god described by the entirety of the bible is contradictory, and therefore logically impossible. Therefore, I have no hesitation when saying I cannot believe in the biblical god. But this is still a conclusion based on the evidence, and nothing more.

However, there are other possible gods. Alternately, portions of the bible might have a fragment of the truth. Perhaps the question I have really answered is “What would meet my standard of evidence to provide proof of some other (possible) god?”

Besides, if there is a god, why do you claim that such evidence can’t happen? A god that could create the universe in 6 days can do anything, right? A true Holy Book shouldn’t be that much more difficult, right? If god can bring the dead back to life, then my request is really quite mundane.

Amie

to many it is far from nonsense...I think believers still embrace reality.
Admiral go have another Martini. Its on me...
I don't think its garbage.
What is it that depresses you though? why would it really matter to you what other people believe in so much so that it causes distress in your life?

Heleilu

Part of it is the simple harm that their misguided beliefs can cause. From the absurd (calico cats are agents of the devil) to the deadly (prayer will heal my child of appendicitis). I don't think you need a refresher on the amount of conflict caused by people whose beliefs include believing that others are better off dead than infidels. Also, there's the desire to inform people. If your best friend told you that he believed lightning rods were immoral because lightning was God's judgement, would you just nod your head or explain the true nature of lightning? And this grades off into trying to help people, like persuading your best friend, who is a ham radio enthusiast, to properly ground his house before lightning hits his 10-foot antenna.

I forgot the most important reason: self-defense. It's a sad country where you have to pretend that Star Wars is evil because the neighbors' pastor said so. :banghead:

Infinity Lover

I agree that if there was a God, and he ment to provide us with a book, that book would greatly differ from the varity of holy scryptures out there.

On the subject of thickheadedness...

...there's something about this "all those stupid ignorant theists and that garbadge Bible they believe in" stance some people insist on adapting...

You're either preaching to the converted, or pissing people off by disrespecting them. It doesn't seem to serve any purpose beyond self-gratification. It's pointles and ultimately counterproductive.

long winded fool

So no ammount of possible evidence could make you believe, but impossible evidence might? You're not the same as a fundamentalist, of course, and I didn't mean to imply that, but there may be more parallels than you think. If it is impossible to provide evidence to make an atheist believe, and it is impossible to provide evidence to make a theist disbelieve, then essentially both the atheist and the theist have made up their mind. The fundamentalist theists aren't afraid to face the facts because they aren't afraid of looking stupid in front of other fundamentalists by saying that nothing could shake their faith. Some strong atheists, on the other hand, who know that it's illogical to hold a strong belief that can't possibly be disproven will shy away from blatantly declaring that nothing could make them believe by inventing impossible standards of evidence and assuming that their belief can know be logically disproven. If it is impossible to provide evidence to disprove your belief, then you must admit your belief can't be logically disproven and nothing could possibly make you believe otherwise.

It is impossible to provide me with evidence that two plus two doesn't equal four. I've made up my mind. So what would it take for me to believe that two plus two equals not-four? Nothing could make me believe that. Or impossible occurances could make me believe it. Same difference. On the surface I believe it based on overwhelming evidence and personal experience, but technically there is absolutely nothing that could make me believe otherwise.

And it is possible to be honestly ignorant.

the long winded fool

rdalin

I don't know how long-winded or foolish you are, but I do know that you don't have much of an argument since you start it off by misstating what I said, which pretty much relegates the rest of your post to the straw-man category.

I didn't say that I'd believe impossible evidence; I did say that I thought evidence would be impossible to provide. If it ever is, then I'll have to assess it. Until and unless it is, my mind is made up. You may regard that as evidence of being closed-minded; I regard it as a logical conclusion to be drawn from the complete lack of evidence. Remember the danger of being perpetually open-minded: eventually, whatever intelligence you have will inevitably leak out.

Richard

long winded fool

I don't think that's close-minded. I also think it's a logical conclusion drawn from available evidence or lack thereof. But if we both agree that evidence to the contrary would be impossible to provide, why can't we agree that nothing could possibly make you believe in the god of the bible? (Possibly being the key word.) Yes, it's true that we don't have the authority to declare what is absolutely impossible and what is possible, and yes if "anything is possible" than evidence could be provided, but then evidence could also be provided that two plus two equals five. Since we can logically examine evidence, we find that there are certain things that have such a low probability of occurring that we call them "impossible." Though it is technically possible for a zealous fundamentalist to encounter evidence that would cause him to renounce his faith, he sees this as such a low probability that he relegates it to the "impossible" category. He doesn't bother with examining what could possibly shake his faith because it has a next to zero chance of occurring.

I suppose that, from a technical standpoint, declaring evidence that would be, for all intents and purposes, impossible to provide is more honest (or at least more correct) than declaring that nothing could make you believe. Though the fundamentalist is being honest when he says that nothing could make him disbelieve, if we assume that anything is possible then this is technically not the case. Though you mean the same thing, you didn't say the same thing after all.

I think you got me on a technicality.

Biff the unclean

So no amount of possible evidence could make you believe, but impossible evidence might?
I'm really very easy with this one.
If you wanted me to believe in Big Foot I would need to see a Big Foot.
Believing in the Loch Ness Monster would require a Loch Ness Monster.
Having faith in little gray men from outer space then you would have to come up with some little gray men from outer space.
You want me to believe in God then just trot out God.

I'm not concerned that I'm going to be tricked. I imagine that the Loch Ness monster is going to look just like a sea monster. And I imagine that you wouldn't mistake God Almighty for anybody else.

As soon as you suggest that the proof of God is the same proof you would need for any other claim Theists treat you like you are crazy. "You want to see God? That's ridiculous!!!!"
But I don't need any magic books or miracles. No tricks, no special effects. You would know a god when you saw one.
The same common ordinary type of proof that you would use to prove anything else existed, that would do just fine for this claim too.

Amie

kind of like me with that angel huh Biff

Biff the unclean

Not an Angel that was EROS.

Eros is visible weither you believe in him or not.