Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ed · 09-02-2002, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy:
That is exactly it. Don't get me wrong, I hate the Nazis. The Nazis did great harm to my family. However, Nazis thought they were doing gods work. You see, they thought they were the chosen people of the earth and could do as they pleased. Sounds a lot like Christianity doesn’t it. It is the morality of the group that allows Christians and Nazis to kill people. As far as I know, this is true for just about every other religion on the planet except perhaps that of the Buddhists. But even then, man has killed man in the name of Buddha.[/b]

But Christianity only allows killing in defense of self and others. I am not referring to what people claiming to have been christians have done, I am referring to what Christianity actually teaches. Because all humans are sinners then it is to be expected that even Christians do wrong and evil things but as a general rule and studies have shown that devout Christians are less likely to commit crimes than non-churchgoers.

Quote:

sb: If you truly want to be a moral person in the greatest sense possible, your group would be everyone and everything. You would not see yourself as a Christian, but as a creature of the Universe.

How do you know this? Did you get some special revelation?

Quote:

sb: As good as that all sounds, it is fatally flawed. The dirty little secret of life, that all of us choose to ignore, is that life eats life. Life kills life. The highest moral standards are only possible for the perfect being; a being that is not alive.

What are the highest moral standards and who or what decided that they were the highest? What is a perfect being and who or what decides what is "perfect"?

[b]

Quote:

sb: Maybe you are not alive, but I am. I will kill living things or have them killed in order to stay alive (I do it all the time); I will not kill other people unless they threaten my life or safety or of the groups I identify with (I will go to war and kill for my country). In all fairness, I must tell you that I have never been faced with the necessity to kill another human, so some of this is hypothetical. I told you Ed, morals are complicated, and there are no simple answers.

Starboy

[ September 01, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]

So basically your morality is based on emotional ties for your own groups. Therefore your morality is no better than Jeffrey Dahmer's or Hitler's. It is not based on anything rational. Well ok, thanks for proving my point about one of major problems with your atheistic worldview.

Starboy · 09-03-2002, 08:24 AM

So Ed, I gather that your morality is not based on a relationship with god? Wouldn't that make you a heathen?

Starboy

[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]

Starboy · 09-03-2002, 06:23 PM

You have not answered, so you must be a heathen.

Ed · 09-05-2002, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy:
So Ed, I gather that your morality is not based on a relationship with god? Wouldn't that make you a heathen?

Starboy

[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]

No, my morality is based on the objective character of God.

Starboy · 09-05-2002, 07:19 PM

The objective character of god. What is that?

NOGO · 09-06-2002, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Ed
No, my morality is based on the objective character of God.

Ed, how about answering my previous post which speaks specifically about your God's character.

Starboy · 09-07-2002, 04:35 PM

Okay Ed, I explained my point of view, now it is your turn.

Ed · 09-07-2002, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NOGO:


Right! This means that if we do as Yahweh does we are sure to me morally right.

Let's take an example.

1 Samuel 15:2-3
"Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he set himself against him on the way while he was coming up from Egypt. 'Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.'"

The attack referred to is in Ex17:8-16
I quote here the last verse.
"The LORD has sworn; the LORD will have war against Amalek from generation to generation."

The key words here are
"I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he set himself against him on the way while he was coming up from Egypt".

The massacre described in 1 Samuel 15 is therefore a punishment for the attack which took place 400 years earlier.

Ed, since you like to talk about morality all the time, I will say this.

The idea that it was fair game to kill children for something that their ancesters did was the MORALITY of the time. It is called a feud. Yahweh sees no problem with this.

Since Yahweh does it then it must be morally right to kill children to avenge something their ancestors did.

See my post to lp in the Rants and Raves thread, I deal with this there.

GunnerJ · 09-07-2002, 08:36 PM

Quote:

See my post to lp in the Rants and Raves thread, I deal with this there.

Your delusions of adequecy are somehow both comical and tragic.

Starboy · 09-08-2002, 11:41 AM

Ed, if you do not explain your point of view, you loose by default.

Starboy

09-03-2002, 08:24 AM	#92
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	So Ed, I gather that your morality is not based on a relationship with god? Wouldn't that make you a heathen? Starboy [ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]</p>

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09-03-2002, 06:23 PM	#93
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	You have not answered, so you must be a heathen.

09-05-2002, 07:19 PM	#95
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	The objective character of god. What is that?

09-07-2002, 04:35 PM	#97
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	Okay Ed, I explained my point of view, now it is your turn.

09-08-2002, 11:41 AM	#100
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	Ed, if you do not explain your point of view, you loose by default. Starboy

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