Carrie

Vtran,

Your replies are hard to understand. Your English skills need work or something.

vtran31

most likely. happens a lot to me when I try to explain something

NOGO

About the end of the world... please see thread "Layman's dubious interpretation of Hebrews 9:26

Matthew's 24 "end of the age" means exactly the end of the world just like in Hebrews 9:26 and they use the same Greek words.

Concerning the saints which rose out of their tombs.
We can tell that this is fiction because it is obvious that this text was edited to correct a problem.

The original text said that when Jesus died the tombs opened and the saints rose. Then someone realized that it meant that some people rose before Jesus so he added words to correct that. The final result is that the tombs opened when Jesus died but the saints waited until Sunday morning before getting up.

anime

The command was to learn the parable of the fig tree. This parable goes back to the garden (sewing fig leaves to cover their privates), Jermiah 24 (the good and evil figs), Revelation 6 (the untimely figs), the fig tree that Jesus cursed, etc, etc.

The generation of the fig tree (1948) will not pass until all these things are fulfilled.

There is no way to understand the generation without learning the parable. Hence, all of the wrestling.

That is my interpretation. People are certainly free to disagree, but disagreement alone does not negate the interpretation.

70 AD was not a fulfillment, for the west wall (the Wailing Wall) still stands.

NOGO

What kills this interpretation is the text itself.

I highlighted the you in order to bring out the point that Jesus is talking to his disciples. He is answering a question they asked him.

verse 33
"so, you too, when you see ... "

The word "so" tells us that Jesus is comparing signs concerning the fig tree that is
" its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves" which allows one to conclude that summer is near
TO
"all these things" which allows one to recognize that Jesus or the Kingdom of God (Luke) is near.

The analogy is a simple one. Leaves on trees tell us it is spring therefore when you see all the signs that Jesus spoke about then the Kingdom of God is near. There is no need to "read" anything else into this analogy; it stands well as is.

There is absolute nothing in the text to lead one to look for an interpretation of "fig tree" as a symbol for anything.

Next, after the "so" we have "you too, when you see"
Jesus is talking to his disciples and tells them that they will see all the things that he spoke about.

verse 32 says "Now learn". Jesus is talking to his disciples and tells them to learn now, not 2000 years from now, learn now the parable from the fig tree.

After Jesus told his disciple to learn the parable of the fig tree and after he told them that they will witness all the things which he spoke about Jesus says:

"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. "

He says to them (his disciples) that this generation will not pass ...

Now what do you think that his disciples understood by this?

Sure! I can see all the early Christians travelling to Jerusalem to verify that not a single stone was left upon another and then concluding ... Ah! One wall still stands. The prophecy has not been fulfilled yet.

anime

This is why a person must be familiar with all the text to understand the fig tree. One verse won't do it for you.

All of Christ's disciples will see these things come to pass, whether their vantage point be from heaven or earth.

"Now learn..."

That would be a very good idea.

NOGO

Nice try.
You are a typical Christian trying very hard to dance around the issue in order to avoid the obvious.

So the disciples will see "all these things" from heaven.

There are two ways to answer this

ITEM ONE

Matthew 24
24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
25 "Behold, I have told you in advance.
26 "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.

"False Christs and false prophets will arise"
Not in heaven I hope.

"I have told you in advance"
No need if they will see all this from heaven.

"if they say to you, ... do not believe them"
I guess that even in heaven the disciples could be fooled.


ITEM TWO

1 Thess 14-17
We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.


The dead in Christ will rise and join the rest and meet the Lord in the clouds.

But how can this be since according to modern Christian thinking we go to heaven right after death?

Daniel 12
13 "But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age."

So Daniel has to wait for the end of the world in order to get his alloted portion.

Early Christians did not believe that their souls just went to heaven after death. They believed that the dead would stay dead until the end of the world when they would resurrect into eternal life.