Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Theli · 08-07-2002, 10:20 PM

Did I ever say that a rock experience anything?
I thought this thread was about the existence of time, and how do you suggest that the rock changes if there is no time?

Theli · 08-07-2002, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquidrage:


Semantics aside, I would say that a rock is a part of our perception (or experience) of spacetime.

The rock itself experiences nothing. No dimensions at all.

I might have missinterpeted this, but are you arguing for the "brain in jar" idea?
That everything we observe is only in our heads.

atrahasis · 08-07-2002, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dostf:
Black Moses:

Enjoyed reading parts of your posts....

In my opinion....
i agree with you time does not exist...but will qualify this statement...
the idea of time is a human one based on his or her own idea of their perceived existance. We can exist "more" or "less" depending on what is in our mind at any moment..
Hence we feel the "passing of time" differently in different situations...
Example.. sitting across from the one you love and looking in their eyes... Do you notice "time passing"? or for that matter where you are?
The less "what you define as YOU exists" the less all else exists also..including "time".
It all relates back to the human being as i think you might agree...

phew!! At last somebody gets my point!!

atrahasis · 08-07-2002, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Sammi:
Black Moses,

Dismissing the claim, that time is experiemced, while waiting for the changes to conclude, with a rebuttal that the changes will complete regardless of the waiting period, reeks of a superficial understanding.

Claiming that we do not experience time, because it does not exist is a historical philosophical dinosaur. You are living in the past of limited thinking.

There is a quality of experience with which humans (I should be careful using the collective WE here) attach the "concept of time". The quality of that experience is contingent on time. At this moment, time and the way in which the experience presents itself are both inexhorably tied together.

No experience without time. *Time at this instant is the transcendental comittment to regularily oversee continuity*.

* * *

To further my points from the last post, the ideas of intrinsic time and extrinsic time comes to light. Intrinsic time is waiting for internal changes to become coherent. Extrinsic time is waiting for external elements to settle. Are the two linked? How are the two linked? Why are the two linked? Questions you can think and answer yourselves...

Does an embryo experience time in the womb? YES, It must, both intrinsically and extrinsically. ELSE?

I am reiterating a modern concept of time by proposing, "time", as a transcendental quality, whose effects are continually experienced.

Strengthen your straw man;Disapprove julian barbour points,Dr. Rovelli, Dr. Smolin premises by coming up with your own theory;;;;A challege <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

atrahasis · 08-07-2002, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Sammi:
In other words rocks enjoy the benefits of time.
[/QB]

For a rock to "enjoy"the benefits of 'time'
that is if time exists at all, it needs some memory.
I'm simply echoing Answerer's question [b]((((((((("Well, how can a rock experience change when it can't even remember what it is doing one second ago?" asked Answerer.

Your slope is tooooo slipperry <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" />

Answerer · 08-08-2002, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Theli:
Did I ever say that a rock experience anything?
I thought this thread was about the existence of time, and how do you suggest that the rock changes if there is no time?

I get your view that time set the condition for change. But time could be our own awareness and product of changes(which is the opposite of your views), see the alternative? There could be no time without changes at all.
Furthermore, since time is 'real' dimensional space to you, could you tell us where is the rock's past and future is kept and hidden?

[ August 08, 2002: Message edited by: Answerer ]

Theli · 08-08-2002, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Answerer:

I get your view that time set the condition for change. But time could be our own awareness and product of changes(which is the opposite of your views), see the alternative? There could be no time without changes at all.
Furthermore, since time is 'real' dimensional space to you, could you tell us where is the rock's past and future is kept and hidden?

Wait,wait,wait,wait wait...
I must have stepped on my own toes here, because I do agree with your statement that our perception of time is based on our brains "speed".
If our brains were to work twice as fast, I guess our surrounding world would seem to go at halfspeed (slowmotion).
Guess I should have read more backwards.

I was never too fond of the supposed timedimension myself.

[ August 08, 2002: Message edited by: Theli ]

Mr. Sammi · 08-08-2002, 05:02 AM

ALL,

The benefits the rock gets out of time is that it CAN BE A ROCK, the intrinsic time of the rock helps the rock to show itself as a rock, the ordering of the rock.

My belief is time helps order existence and through the being of existence we in turn experience the order through consciousness and its continuity. We have the ability to follow the existing order of existence.

To postulate a past and a future means we accredit NOW as an experience through which time acts as companion guide. You can drop the guide if you are not a determinist.

The future seems steadier than the past because it is the immediate result of NOW being in effect. The past is shady because it needs to be copied, and depending on who directs the copying, god starts being blamed.

Time is folded into the steadiness of the experience or the steadiness of the mass in order that the mass or the experience prove itself capable of being recognised. Capable of enduring so much of existence.

Exactly how this is achieved I am not sure.

* * *

The past of this system seems embedded in its NOW, in its existential. The system itself seems to record some of the changes which occur due to the passage of time, but this does not seem adequate to provide records on demand.

Sammi Na Boodie ()

Mr. Sammi · 08-08-2002, 05:19 AM

Black Moses,

in case you did not know, the rock is a memory of itself.

Remember human memory and memories are not exactly the same thingie.

Sammi Na Boodie ()

atrahasis · 08-09-2002, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Sammi:
Black Moses,

in case you did not know, the rock is a memory of itself.

Remember human memory and memories are not exactly the same thingie.

Sammi Na Boodie ()

Mr. sammi, as much as you have so many straw men, Could you please explain your claim that"the rock is a memory of itself." sorry for the tautology

[ August 09, 2002: Message edited by: Black Moses ]

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08-07-2002, 10:20 PM	#81
Theli Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,567	Did I ever say that a rock experience anything? I thought this thread was about the existence of time, and how do you suggest that the rock changes if there is no time?

08-08-2002, 05:02 AM	#88
Mr. Sammi Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montr�al Posts: 367	ALL, The benefits the rock gets out of time is that it CAN BE A ROCK, the intrinsic time of the rock helps the rock to show itself as a rock, the ordering of the rock. My belief is time helps order existence and through the being of existence we in turn experience the order through consciousness and its continuity. We have the ability to follow the existing order of existence. To postulate a past and a future means we accredit NOW as an experience through which time acts as companion guide. You can drop the guide if you are not a determinist. The future seems steadier than the past because it is the immediate result of NOW being in effect. The past is shady because it needs to be copied, and depending on who directs the copying, god starts being blamed. Time is folded into the steadiness of the experience or the steadiness of the mass in order that the mass or the experience prove itself capable of being recognised. Capable of enduring so much of existence. Exactly how this is achieved I am not sure. * * * The past of this system seems embedded in its NOW, in its existential. The system itself seems to record some of the changes which occur due to the passage of time, but this does not seem adequate to provide records on demand. Sammi Na Boodie ()

08-08-2002, 05:19 AM	#89
Mr. Sammi Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montr�al Posts: 367	Black Moses, in case you did not know, the rock is a memory of itself. Remember human memory and memories are not exactly the same thingie. Sammi Na Boodie ()

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