Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ion · 10-14-2002, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by leonarde:
Well currently there are
about 1 billion people (out of 6 billion or so total) who adhere to the belief that Jesus was a
real personage.
...

The fools.
Send them to this forum and talk to me about it.
It's not like I ever had had in my life to follow giant numbers of fools, in anything.

Quote:

Originally posted by leonarde:

...
How is this fact not "the most recognized in human history and knowledge"???
...
You keep saying that there is no historical evidence for Jesus but are unable to explain why
the people who have devoted their entire lives to
the study of ancient history (university professors thereof)mostly believe that Jesus was
indeed historical.
...

I am speaking -obviously since my first posts here- about scientific recognition (like the study on Jesus non-existence I gave you a link for), not one billion of scientifically uneducated fools.

As for "...university professors..." who believe that "...Jesus was indeed historical...", I would like to see the first one who is accepted in this belief by history standards.

Quote:

Originally posted by leonarde:

...
What archaeological evidence are you looking for?
Cheers!

Los Angeles Times Friday April 13, 2001 printed an article that archeologists dispute Exodus ever happened.

Regarding Jesus, Matt 16:28 writes his prophecy:
"Assuredly I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
It didn't happen.
You argued that Eastern Sunday means it happened.
I responded that Matt 24:30 writes:
"...then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven, and then all the tribes on earth will mourn..."
Archaeologically, no "...tribes on earth..." did mourn, the Egyptians -and everybody else- didn't have a clue about the 'Son of Man' 2000 years ago.
So, 'the second coming' of Jesus, that's baloney.

No wonder, given the link I gave you, doubting Jesus' historical existence.

Novowels · 10-14-2002, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by leonarde:
[QB]I'm not at all comfortable with speaking about Noah and Jesus in the same post(s).
The Flood story I do understand to be allegorical and legendary. Not so with Jesus.[QB]

Give it another 2000 years.

The human race is a little slow, but we eventually figure it out.

Nialler · 10-15-2002, 01:30 AM

*sigh*

Van, you accuse me of not dealing with specifics.

Here we go:

One account says that Judas hung himself.
The other syas that he fell headlong.

These are in direct contradiction, but you refuse to accept this. Tough.

Just imagine how these accounts would be dealt with in a court of law. Imagine how your attempts to reconcile the statements would be dismissed.

You simply don't appear to have the most basic comprehension skills. That's the way it reads to me and to almost everyone that has read this thread. But, hey, let's wrap this up with a quick straw poll.

I'm asking the other contributors to this thread the following questions:

Do you think there are contradictions in the separate accounts of Judas' death?
Do you think that they are clear contradictions?

Ron Garrett · 10-15-2002, 05:19 AM

The contradictions are clear and incontrovertible. Venderzygen's denials are not based in the accounts, but in his emotional a priori commitment to an irrational view of the compendium, i.e. that it is divine in origin based on the mere say so of men who are also emotionally committed to this proposition, since they in fact cannot demonstrate this and we can in fact demonstrate the contrary, Because he has committed to this emotional proposition that the accounts cannot be in contradicion with one another and because of his a priori assumption that any blatantly apparent errors result from his inability to trust his own senses and intellect, which in his case is probably a generally sound assumption, it is pointles to present evidence to him. His view is not based in evidence. It is based in his emotional commitment, which was n0t rational when formed and will not be moderated by reason.

Ion · 10-15-2002, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nialler:

...
I'm asking the other contributors to this thread the following questions:

Do you think there are contradictions in the separate accounts of Judas' death?
Do you think that they are clear contradictions?

Yes.

Baidarka · 10-15-2002, 08:17 AM

yes

Vanderzyden · 10-15-2002, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nialler:

Here we go:

One account says that Judas hung himself.
The other syas that he fell headlong.

These are in direct contradiction, but you refuse to accept this. Tough.

...But, hey, let's wrap this up with a quick straw poll.

You are simplying claiming that they are contradictory. What support do you have?

Your replies indicate that you have not taken time to read the contents of this thread. Please go back and do so before you post these baseless claims again.

Oh, do you think that you will find the truth by taking polls? Do you think that you will obtain a fair sampling here at Infidels?

Vanderzyden

Baidarka · 10-15-2002, 08:25 AM

Vanderzyden
You are simply claiming that they are not contradictory. What support do you have?
Your replies indicate that you have not taken time to read the contents of this thread. Please go back and do so before you post these baseless claims again.
Oh, do you think that you will find the truth by writing to yourself? Do you think that you will obtain a fair answer by unilaterally announcing that you are the ultimate authority on truth?

Ion · 10-15-2002, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baidarka:
Vanderzyden
You are simply claiming that they are not contradictory. What support do you have?
Your replies indicate that you have not taken time to read the contents of this thread. Please go back and do so before you post these baseless claims again.
Oh, do you think that you will find the truth by writing to yourself? Do you think that you will obtain a fair answer by unilaterally announcing that you are the ultimate authority on truth?

I second this, based on the thread's arguments.

leonarde · 10-15-2002, 01:28 PM

Posted yesterday by Ion:

Quote:

Originally posted by leonarde:
Well currently there are about 1 billion people (out of 6 billion or so total) who adhere to the belief that Jesus was a
real personage.
...

The fools.
Send them to this forum and talk to me about it.

If this is merely a joke then you
are off the hook. But chances are that "many a
truth is said in jest".
You have declared that about one sixth of the
earth's population consists of "fools". And why??
Because they don't agree with you about the
historical reality of Jesus of Nazareth. It's hard
to take you seriously after that.

Cheers!

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10-15-2002, 01:30 AM	#183
Nialler Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Paris Posts: 8,473	sigh Van, you accuse me of not dealing with specifics. Here we go: One account says that Judas hung himself. The other syas that he fell headlong. These are in direct contradiction, but you refuse to accept this. Tough. Just imagine how these accounts would be dealt with in a court of law. Imagine how your attempts to reconcile the statements would be dismissed. You simply don't appear to have the most basic comprehension skills. That's the way it reads to me and to almost everyone that has read this thread. But, hey, let's wrap this up with a quick straw poll. I'm asking the other contributors to this thread the following questions: Do you think there are contradictions in the separate accounts of Judas' death? Do you think that they are clear contradictions?

10-15-2002, 05:19 AM	#184
Ron Garrett Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: United States Posts: 1,657	The contradictions are clear and incontrovertible. Venderzygen's denials are not based in the accounts, but in his emotional a priori commitment to an irrational view of the compendium, i.e. that it is divine in origin based on the mere say so of men who are also emotionally committed to this proposition, since they in fact cannot demonstrate this and we can in fact demonstrate the contrary, Because he has committed to this emotional proposition that the accounts cannot be in contradicion with one another and because of his a priori assumption that any blatantly apparent errors result from his inability to trust his own senses and intellect, which in his case is probably a generally sound assumption, it is pointles to present evidence to him. His view is not based in evidence. It is based in his emotional commitment, which was n0t rational when formed and will not be moderated by reason.

10-15-2002, 08:17 AM	#186
Baidarka Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 590	yes

10-15-2002, 08:25 AM	#188
Baidarka Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 590	Vanderzyden You are simply claiming that they are not contradictory. What support do you have? Your replies indicate that you have not taken time to read the contents of this thread. Please go back and do so before you post these baseless claims again. Oh, do you think that you will find the truth by writing to yourself? Do you think that you will obtain a fair answer by unilaterally announcing that you are the ultimate authority on truth?

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