Amie

he is a sick man

Thats simply your perception.

My understanding does not involve harming and sexually abusing children in any way. Big difference.

galiel

But who is to say that your perception of God is the right one and not his? Or, for that matter, the zillion other versions of "God is____"

(Most people, for example, assume unquestioningly that "God" is a he.)

The point is, Amie, that retreating to platitudes and then defending them with "that is what I believe" is not conducive to rational conversation. Now, I know little about you, but I know enough to know that you are not a mindless fundie. You are quite rational and insightful when discussing all sorts of things in these forums. Yet, when it comes to faith, you retreat to platitudes and "that is my belief". I'm sure I'm misjudging you, but, from your posts on a couple threads here today, you seem to be afraid of your beliefs being challenged.

Why?

Amie

I never said mine was the right one now did I??
however my God belief does not involve hurting other people.

you are entitled to your opinion.

what do you want from me? to somehow prove my fait? how? how can I prove a subjective experience? and more so how can a subjective belief in God be wrong?

of course you are...I guess its my turn to deal with you...

No. Not all all. Jesus Christ galiel it was simply an expression. I gave you a definition of what I meant by God is love, If my definition was not good enough for you thats just too damn bad. deal with it.

galiel

Interesting response.
In another thread, about miracles, you said you would like to visit Lourdes. I assume that is because you have read about supposed miracles that happen there. Thus, you have received your information from a particular source, have evaluated it, and have chosen to believe it, probably because of a set of unconscious or conscious criteria that you have. Whatever it is, it is your form of filter. For example, if you read that the Easter Bunny came down in a spaceship and gave magical Pokemon eggs to Bush's daughters on the White House lawn, I doubt that you would just "believe" that.

Logically, therefore, it is reasonable to ask you to explain why you believe certain things and not others. No matter how sincerely I tell you that you can just close your eyes when driving, let go of the steering wheel, and trust the Lord to guide you, I suspect you will keep your eyes open and both hands on the wheel. I suspect you would do that even if your trusted priest/minister/rabbi/whatever was the one telling you to let go. You read what this certified, experienced man of God said in the article, and you decided to reject it, because it didn't accord with your understanding of the world. That is an example of applying logic to a situation.

Like it or not, you apply logical, critical filters all the time, every moment of your life. Why not here? Why not question the reasons you believe in one invisible being vs. another? Why not question your certainty that "God" is "Love" and not "Hate", or "Apathy", or "The Thing That Makes Pickles Crunchy", for that matter?

You are so certain that God exists, and that God is a benevolent, loving being. Why are you so afraid of examining that assumption as rationally as you examine last week's leftovers to see if they haven't spoiled?

[ December 11, 2002: Message edited by: galiel ]</p>

Amie

If you want to participate in the miracles thread, its in the existence of Gods forum...

and right now I have tonsilitis but I am not relying on god to heal me...

I have gone through a time in my life when I questioned, right now this is where I am, I believe in God, in a loving forgiving God.

I have.

I do not fear to examine my beliefs. However they are mine and for me alone to examine...
galiel go argue with me in another thread. This is a love thread.

Infinity Lover

Galiel for crying out loud, the only positive assertion Amie made in this thread is about what she believes. She doesn't claim anything to be fact there.

Does she have to PROVE that she PERSONALLY beliefs something? Gimme a break.

And thanks for hijacking the thread bub.

galiel

Can you feel the love?

Infinity Lover

Great; get on topice while you're catching the vibe.

What is your definition of love?

galiel

It's little like Justice Stewart's definition of obscenity.

I know when I feel it

Seriously, I personally think endless discussions about the definition of common sense terms (a favorite topic among philosophers) is just a form of mental masturbation. It doesn't really shed any light or bring new knowledge.

That is one of the things that bugs me about the "God is love" cliche. Theists try to steal even the most utterly human of emotions, reduce it to a Hallmark card, and claim it for some imaginary male Boss in the sky.

I can tell you one thing about love, it ain't something you normally get from a Great Big Boss Man (Unless you are in the clink, and then it is only the GBBM who calls it "love").

Infinity Lover

Galiel? Weren't you the one who was just a moment ago complaing about others not explaining what something means. So where's your definition of love?

You think that's mental masturbation? Socrate thought an objective understanding of love was important. If you don't want to discuss the topic, why are you even in this thread?