bluefugue

So do chimpanzees have souls? How about cats? How about lizards? How about trout? How about cockroaches? How about mushrooms? How about geraniums? How about bacteria? All of these organisms "go" after their fashion, and all of them are capable of dying.

Jonsey3333

Svensky:
Does this mean that thought occurs outside of the brain? Well, the brain is always working, and we are always thinking.

David Gould:
Exactly. Is there some measurable energy or something, kind of like an infrared signal coming from a remote control?

David Gould:
Do plants? Do protista? Do bacteria? Do microbes living in the most extreme of environments? Do viruses? Does DNA? Do prions? Do nucleotides....

David Gould:
That reminds me of the Phillip Pullman series - His Dark Materials. Has anyone read it?

David Gould:
Identical twins are basically clones. They have virtually the same DNA structure. They are as close as clones will ever get.

Is anyone willing to suggest that twins share a soul? Or can there be identical souls (allowing that they change as experience changes the individual).

Also, has anyone heard of split-brain surgery (a.k.a. callosotomy, fissurotomy)? This procedure is used to cure or treat severe cases of epileptic patients. The corpus collosum (the brain cells connecting the two hemispheres of the brain) is severed. Because certain activities are localized to one side of the brain, this makes for some interesting implications.

Most of the body is controlled by the contralateral side of the brain (i.e. left hemisphere controls right arm, right hemisphere controls left). The left side of the brain is usually where speech and language is developed.

A person who has had split-brain surgery holds an item in their left hand without sensing it any other way than touch. When asked what is in their hand, the person cannot answer. If the person switches hands, then they answer readily.

More on split-brain surgery<a href="http://www.macalester.edu/~psych/whathap/UBNRP/Split_Brain/Pioneers.html" target="_blank">here</a>.

This all seems contradictory to dualism.

-Mike

(edited to fix url)

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: Jonsey3333 ]</p>

Amos

At the time of conception identical twins have the same soul but do not share one soul. After conception they already begin to form their own identity as individuals.

The split brain tests proves that in our right brain we do not know who we really are while in our left brain we do (since they function contralateral).

Amos

All sentient beings have souls because sense perception is retained in the soul from where it is incarnate between generations. It is in this incarnation process that they "go" after their own fashion. In the bible the soul is call "woman" as "womb of man" through which man becomes "flesh of flesh and bone of bones."

Amos

</strong>

The soul is created and upon the souls blueprint the foetus is formed (a foetus is never created but formed after the created foetus). This affirms "essence precedes existence."

Dreaming proves division of our mind (dualism) because it is impossible to dream if we are of one mind. Based on this the bible says the "it will be an evil age when old men have dreams."

Jonsey3333

So, in a cloning, a new soul would be produced?


Huh? I don't follow your logic.

This works on both sides. Here are some other examples from the famous Gazzaniga experiments:

1:
2:
In example 1, the same thing happens. The left hemisphere that controls speech cannot receive information from the right hemisphere which controls left-side vision.

In example 2, the left hemisphere at first does not know about the flashed word "itch" on the left (right hemisphere), but sees the hand scratching with the right eye, and makes a guess, "rub".

There's more at the site.


So do souls have something akin to DNA then to for generations to inherit? A blueprint for a blueprint?


Nothing of the sort. A dream occurs because the brain is working while we sleep, and when we wake, we realize some of the work that was done during our sleep, much of it nonsensical and fantastical. And when did old men not have dreams? This would imply that it always an evil age, not "will be".

-Mike

edited for screwed-up quoting

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: Jonsey3333 ]</p>

John Page

Great, now I'm a TV. Is this where chaneling comes in?

Amos

John Page

Amos:

First off I don't understand how you reach a conclusion that a 'soul' exists singularly independent of physical matter. Its simply an abstract property.

You were never in charge of your brain! Your brain was in charge of itself and the self conscious "I" that 'appears' when you wake up.

I read of an example to do with cats. Scientists found the way to turn off the motor inhibitor that the body generates when the cat sleeps. The cat was asleep but ran around chasing imaginary mice etc.

Cheers.

Amos

Some people day-dream and others sleep-walk. Under hypnosis we will do all sorts of things without pain or other rational evaluation by our ego awareness (conscious mind).

Touche.