Toto

You may edit any misspellings. Thanks.

Toto

From Dramatizing the Death of Jesus in the OP:

What are you trying to tell me, Layman?

Layman

Yes, from what I understand the NCCB participants has been more cooperative in returning the script. Note that the scholars listed in the article are only four of the eight on the committee.

Layman

No, I do not believe it is available on the internet.

Toto

I see I was unclear. They say that "have not released the contents of our confidential evaluation of it that was sent to Mr. Gibson." They are writing as Catholics but there is no indication that the Jewish scholars are at odds with them on strategy.

Where did you find a copy?

Layman

I'm not sure what you mean by "strategy." You seemed to be absolving the group of wrongdoing because they claim they have returned the stolen manuscript and/or its copies. I merely pointed out that only some of the scholars have claimed to have done so--the Catholic ones.

Do not fret, there was nothing inappropriate about the copy I reviewed or how it was obtained.

Toto

You keep trying to spin this to put some blame on the scholars. None of them seem to think that they solicited or received a "stolen" copy.

It's just a way of diverting attention from the question of anti-Semitism and the connection between Passion Plays and the pogroms that paved the way for the Holocaust. I think some arguments can be made against Fredriksen's position on the grounds that social conditions are different now, but there has been an upsurge in anti-Semitism in Europe lately. I don't think that the issue is trivial.

Layman

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Toto
Where do any of them deny receiving a stolen copy of the manuscript? All the reports I've seen they either dodge the issue, admit its unauthorized, but argue they thought Gibson "knew" they had it.

Manuscript theft is a serious issue. Especially when its an earlier version. As for the film causing anti-Semitism, that's a scurilous charge. You know as well as I do that Europe is almost completely secularized, except for the growing Islamic immigrant community. And its mainly Islamic fundies in Europe who have been responsible for the uptick. Though I agree that the leftist European governments haven't done enough to stop it.

Toto

No one claims that the film would cause anti-Semitism, only that it would feed into an underlying strain of anti-Semitism that predates Christianity.

Pointing out the historical inaccuracies in the film's sources seems like useful work for theologians.

I think that both the Catholic scholars and Fredriksen have dealt with the "stolen manuscript" red herring.

Layman

I disagree with you that no on claims this.

I have my own problems with the film, such as having the Romans speak latin instead of Greek. But I haven't framed my concerns on a stolen manuscript and attempted to dictate changes in the film under the threat of a PR war.

I agree that the Catholic scholars did, by returning the manuscript(s). Fredrikesen, to my knowledge, has not. Nor have the ADL participants.

Some seem to think that because they are scholars they were entitled to exploit stolen property. I disagree with that very strongly.