Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Celsus · 03-29-2003, 10:07 AM

Well an ex-housemate of mine onced asked, "Aren't dinosaurs a myth?" I think that blows the T-Rex-myth claim out of the water. I went slackjawed, gibbered, and insisted she visit the London Natural History Museum at the earliest possible moment. She replied she'd already been and she'd really enjoyed it... I mean, where do you even begin with something like that?

Joel

openeyes · 03-29-2003, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Albion
And there's no fusion going on in the Sun's core, it just looks as if there is?

The first thing I was told about creationism still sticks with me (I was a brand new immigrant and these were my first Bible-belt fundies) - that creationism must be true because the pastor says so, whereas in order to believe evolution you have to be able to read. I really, really, very badly wanted to get on the next plane back to England.

It makes you wonder, doesn't it, how the U.S. has advanced technologically at all?

Which brings up a question I've been pondering recently with the current federal administration, and my local state people too: How can they pretend to want to advance on a science/technology front while they wrap themselves up in religion and have such close ties to religious conservatives and fundies? With the space shuttle crashing we had all kinds of calls to continue the space program (especially since that means more federal dollars for Texans). My local governor (whose wife is furnishing the mansion in a way where "God" would feel welcome or pleased or something along that line) wants our state to become a technology center. He and his fellow conservative are pretty much clamping down on opportunities to show that diversity is welcome.

Don't they realize that you can't ignore the theory that gets you the results if you don't like it because it jars with your bible, but still pretend you're for science and the advancements it brings?

sakrilege · 03-29-2003, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by openeyes
My local governor (whose wife is furnishing the mansion in a way where "God" would feel welcome or pleased or something along that line) wants our state to become a technology center.

As I understand it, this happened in Ohio when ID wanted to make inroads, the guvna has been pushing for biotech to be a cornerstone of an economic recovery so had to decide between ID and science. Fortunately, he came out against ID, albeit a little lukewarmly.

pz · 03-29-2003, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by openeyes
My local governor (whose wife is furnishing the mansion in a way where "God" would feel welcome or pleased or something along that line) wants our state to become a technology center. He and his fellow conservative are pretty much clamping down on opportunities to show that diversity is welcome.

The ironies are even richer. That governor has been specifically talking about making us a biotechnology center...and at the same time, they are proposing 15-30% cuts in the university budget over the next two years. We're looking at losing maybe 10% of our faculty, with big losses in our operating budget, and on top of that, we're supposed to accept pay freezes for the next year or more likely two.

How did we get this fine crop of morons into the state and federal government over the last couple of years?

WinAce · 03-29-2003, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pete Harcoff
Recently, I saw a creationist claim that the existence of Tyrannosaurus Rex was disproven, but this was being covered up by a scientific conspiracy.

Was this found on any online forum? If so, you know where to send the link

My vote goes to this recent one:

"Anyway, I think God is perfect because his creation is perfect. I mean, look at it this way...

Your nose is on the perfect side of your body so you don't smell your own ass."

:banghead:

BTW, Happy Birthday, Pete!

OrderedChaos · 03-29-2003, 02:44 PM

I remember once when browsing Kent Hovind's site, on the front page he was saying evolution was wrong because scientists still based it on Lamarkism and that it had already been disproven. Then again, maybe it is cheating using Kent Hovind as a source of wild claims.

sensate · 03-29-2003, 06:47 PM

Wildest creationist claim? Creation science.

Albion · 03-29-2003, 06:52 PM

Well, technology isn't science. There's a much higher proportion of creationists among engineers than among scientists, and I assume the politicians know how industry makes its profits. Now, exactly where they think the technology is going to come from if they make life hard for scientists is a different matter. But as long as pure science is published in journals in the public domain, does it really matter to US politicians if a larger and larger proroption of it is done in other countries? The bans and restrictions and moratoria on embryonic stem cell research and cloning are already driving some researchers away, and I assume they're stopping ones from immigrating here who might have otherwise considered doing so.

The Lone Ranger · 03-29-2003, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by happyboy:

you know, if all these creationist claims are true, it means only one thing: God is fucking with us. God is deliberately lying to us, hoping to weed out the rational and logical humans, so that only the blindly loyal who don't use the brains He gave us get into heaven.

maybe it wasn't pride that caused the downfall of lucifer; maybe the morningstar simply opened his eyes and saw what a hypocrite his God was.

I seem to recall reading something by Mark Twain in which he insisted that Christians have it entirely backwards (Robert G. Ingersoll wrote something similar). Twain pointed out that God wanted to keep us ignorant, while Lucifer wanted us to acquire knowledge.

So who's the real villain in Genesis?

Cheers,

Michael

notMichaelJackson · 03-29-2003, 08:34 PM

Just off the top of my head:

1. God created the world with fossils in them, and they are not the remains of animals or plants.

2. God increased the speed of light so that the light from the stars would reach the earth by the sixth day of creation, then reduced the speed down to 186,000 miles an hour.

3. The sun should have burned out all of its hydrogen fuel by now if the universe is billions of years old.

Those were just a few.

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03-29-2003, 10:07 AM	#11
Celsus Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Singapore Posts: 2,875	Well an ex-housemate of mine onced asked, "Aren't dinosaurs a myth?" I think that blows the T-Rex-myth claim out of the water. I went slackjawed, gibbered, and insisted she visit the London Natural History Museum at the earliest possible moment. She replied she'd already been and she'd really enjoyed it... I mean, where do you even begin with something like that? Joel

03-29-2003, 02:44 PM	#16
OrderedChaos Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Pacific time zone Posts: 239	I remember once when browsing Kent Hovind's site, on the front page he was saying evolution was wrong because scientists still based it on Lamarkism and that it had already been disproven. Then again, maybe it is cheating using Kent Hovind as a source of wild claims.

03-29-2003, 06:47 PM	#17
sensate Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: midwest Posts: 438	Wildest creationist claim? Creation science.

03-29-2003, 06:52 PM	#18
Albion Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: US east coast. And www.theroyalforums.com Posts: 2,829	Well, technology isn't science. There's a much higher proportion of creationists among engineers than among scientists, and I assume the politicians know how industry makes its profits. Now, exactly where they think the technology is going to come from if they make life hard for scientists is a different matter. But as long as pure science is published in journals in the public domain, does it really matter to US politicians if a larger and larger proroption of it is done in other countries? The bans and restrictions and moratoria on embryonic stem cell research and cloning are already driving some researchers away, and I assume they're stopping ones from immigrating here who might have otherwise considered doing so.

03-29-2003, 08:34 PM	#20
notMichaelJackson Banned Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: IL Posts: 552	Just off the top of my head: 1. God created the world with fossils in them, and they are not the remains of animals or plants. 2. God increased the speed of light so that the light from the stars would reach the earth by the sixth day of creation, then reduced the speed down to 186,000 miles an hour. 3. The sun should have burned out all of its hydrogen fuel by now if the universe is billions of years old. Those were just a few.

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