Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GeoTheo · 09-03-2002, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy:
<strong>

Hi Baidarka,

Isn�t that the essence of fiction, the willingness to suspend disbelief for a moment of escape into another world? I do not see the harm in that as long as it doesn�t get out of hand. When people can no longer distinguish fiction from reality and act on it, I think it would be obvious to anyone, that nothing but trouble can come of it.

Starboy</strong>

Define reality and prove it is not just a copletely subjective figment of your imagination.

Starboy · 09-03-2002, 12:24 PM

I don't know that I can do that. Has anyone been able to do that?

Starboy

Baidarka · 09-03-2002, 01:56 PM

I particularly liked Michael’s parable which I think brings us to the heart of the mechanism that we are trying to observe. It is like the mother of a murderer being interviewed for the TV news, telling us that her sweet darling would never commit such a heinous act.

Sighhswolf’s rendition of the "Donation of Constantine" story tells us how the “Big Lie” can be used to trump ones opponents and win in the war of paradigm shifting. Can the big Lie be used by genuine believers or is it safe to assume that the perpetrators of the Donation of Constantine fraud were cold cynical manipulators of mankind?

Heathen Dawn seems to be a believer who is totally aware that he has willed himself (herself?) to believe something because it is pleasing. Refreshingly honest but is this really belief?

Starboys question relating theology to fiction and asking if we get into danger if we can’t distinguish between fiction and reality. Most religions insist on blind belief and insist that their fictions are reality. Some Religions go so far as to insist that those who accept any variance to their dogma should be stomped on and burned.

Is it a wonderful thing to think of Jesus, Buddha, the Virgin Mary, the perfect man or woman? If we could create an image or a concept of the perfect person that we could universally agree to and all aspire to, would this be a worth while project regardless of its origin? Can something like this be done without creating a Big Lie

Let’s take this speculation to the next level. Religions and strange beliefs are a universal part of the human condition. Except for a few strange eccentrics like the people on this website most people in most parts of the world are believers. Even those who aren’t affiliated with any religious organization say they believe in God or the Gods.
Are we hard wired to experience religious ecstasy? Have we evolved to be the religious ape? Does religion or at least the ability to pretend to be religious provide an advantage in the evolutionary race?

Starboy · 09-03-2002, 02:08 PM

I have been reading Joseph Campbell lately. He seems to have asked similar questions. As far as I can tell what he is saying is that religion is mythology. The primary purpose of religion/mythology is to help people figure out how to live life well in the culture they find themselves. So the circumstances of the society (hunter gatherer, agricultural and so forth) would shape the culture and thus the mythology. It makes a great deal of sense and also explains why in this day and age Christianity is so busted.

Starboy

Baidarka · 09-03-2002, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Define reality and prove it is not just a copletely subjective figment of your imagination.

I think that I remember some old Star treks. The captain would have to disable a misbehaving computor. So he would think of some question like "what's the sq root of -1 and the computor would start shaking,and quakeing and then it would die and all would be hunky dory. Is that what your up to GT. Don't fall for it Starboy Geo Theo is up to no good.

Starboy · 09-03-2002, 06:08 PM

Don't worry I didn't give it a moments notice. It is a silly question. If reality were a figment of my imagination GeoTheo would be an a-theist and I would be rich and good looking. Hmmmmm I wonder whose imagination this reality could belong to? Could it be Bill Gates? Nah! He would be much better looking.

Starboy

[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]</p>

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09-03-2002, 12:24 PM	#12
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	I don't know that I can do that. Has anyone been able to do that? Starboy

09-03-2002, 01:56 PM	#13
Baidarka Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 590	I particularly liked Michael’s parable which I think brings us to the heart of the mechanism that we are trying to observe. It is like the mother of a murderer being interviewed for the TV news, telling us that her sweet darling would never commit such a heinous act. Sighhswolf’s rendition of the "Donation of Constantine" story tells us how the “Big Lie” can be used to trump ones opponents and win in the war of paradigm shifting. Can the big Lie be used by genuine believers or is it safe to assume that the perpetrators of the Donation of Constantine fraud were cold cynical manipulators of mankind? Heathen Dawn seems to be a believer who is totally aware that he has willed himself (herself?) to believe something because it is pleasing. Refreshingly honest but is this really belief? Starboys question relating theology to fiction and asking if we get into danger if we can’t distinguish between fiction and reality. Most religions insist on blind belief and insist that their fictions are reality. Some Religions go so far as to insist that those who accept any variance to their dogma should be stomped on and burned. Is it a wonderful thing to think of Jesus, Buddha, the Virgin Mary, the perfect man or woman? If we could create an image or a concept of the perfect person that we could universally agree to and all aspire to, would this be a worth while project regardless of its origin? Can something like this be done without creating a Big Lie Let’s take this speculation to the next level. Religions and strange beliefs are a universal part of the human condition. Except for a few strange eccentrics like the people on this website most people in most parts of the world are believers. Even those who aren’t affiliated with any religious organization say they believe in God or the Gods. Are we hard wired to experience religious ecstasy? Have we evolved to be the religious ape? Does religion or at least the ability to pretend to be religious provide an advantage in the evolutionary race?

09-03-2002, 02:08 PM	#14
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	I have been reading Joseph Campbell lately. He seems to have asked similar questions. As far as I can tell what he is saying is that religion is mythology. The primary purpose of religion/mythology is to help people figure out how to live life well in the culture they find themselves. So the circumstances of the society (hunter gatherer, agricultural and so forth) would shape the culture and thus the mythology. It makes a great deal of sense and also explains why in this day and age Christianity is so busted. Starboy

09-03-2002, 06:08 PM	#16
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	Don't worry I didn't give it a moments notice. It is a silly question. If reality were a figment of my imagination GeoTheo would be an a-theist and I would be rich and good looking. Hmmmmm I wonder whose imagination this reality could belong to? Could it be Bill Gates? Nah! He would be much better looking. Starboy [ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]</p>

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