Demigawd

Well, for me, the above statement is correct if you attach at the end of the sentence the following: based solely on wishful thinking and a book of mythology.

Better yet, how about this:

So, one way to avoid being a bigot is to never make any positive or negative claims based solely on wishful thinking and a book of mythology.

Demigawd

Being an agnostic is a good start for the religiously honest. For things that can be actually observed and studied, I suppose you could take a stance on, and any argument that insues would serve to support or question your experience.

GeoTheo

So you are a bigot because you say my beliefs are based on wishful thinking and myths. To avoid being a bigot you should say you don't know wheather they are true or not.

Demigawd

Nice try to trap my statement in your previous absolute blanket, but no prize for you. You're the one who adheres to a specific mythology, not me. I'm agnostic about these matters. When analyzing someone who makes a claim about life, the universe, etc., I look to whether or not said person has something to back up the claim. Scholarship based upon concrete, observable patterns warrants consideration. Assertions based upon mystical warm fuzzies and mythologies do not.

beth

Main Entry: big·ot
Pronunciation: 'bi-g&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1661
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
- big·ot·ed /-g&-t&d/ adjective
- big·ot·ed·ly adverb

No. I am not bigoted toward your predudicial faith. You have the right to believe as you will. Just don't judge me for my lack of faith and don't try to cram your religion down my throat.

Biff the unclean

Yikes!!!
It's the old "I know you are but what am I?" retort! Curses (twists sinister mustache) foiled again.

wildernesse

Biff:

We disagree about the God business. I don't believe there was an Adam and Eve fall, and I think that people make mistakes that harm themselves and others that I categorize in my life as sin.

Yes, I agree that the slamming of doors is done solely by people. I don't think God shuts off its love from people.

IF my husband wants to be forgiven of something by God, I am sure that God will forgive him. IF it turns out that he doesn't, then there is no need--and I don't know if he will or not.

You are right that I don't see myself as condemning. I don't know if he'll need forgiveness, but if he does, it's not a problem. And I think that he would only need it IF he asks for it--a human need, not a God-demand. I did not say that not being a member of my "club" is a selfish/harmful act that needs forgiveness. I think that Christ is the way we discover fully the love of God and are saved from our own blocking of what is best for us, yes. Do I think that is only encapsulated in the teachings of Jesus and no where else? No--like I said earlier, "his" teachings are found in other religions and belief systmes and I would think that they are truth as well. I believe that the truest truth (ha!) is found in Jesus, but that's been helped along by several factors.

I know that this is true for me--I have several instances in my life where I behaved badly. I wish that the people I behaved selfishly toward would forgive me when I ask. From that, I assumed that when other people realize their selfish actions (IF THERE ARE ANY) then they would feel similarly. Maybe they won't. If they don't, I don't guess that they'll ask for it, and God will love them the same anyway.

Forgiveness isn't a condition for the love, to me, it's just there when/if we want it. I don't say that other people need forgiveness--I don't know. Sometimes I do, and maybe I'm such a shoddy piece of work that my experience is unique to mankind in the fact that I act selfishly.

Hopefully, this will help you understand me better. Good night.

--tibac

Godless Dave

No. I think there is a subset of Christians that mean non-Christians harm. There is a larger subset that don't respect the beliefs of on-Christians, and that draws irrational conclusions about people based on their religious beliefs. And both groups can find scriptural justification for these views. The latter view, in particular, is still advanced implicitly by many churches, clergy, and Christian writers. But certainly not all Christians are like that, and I would not even go so far as to say Christians in general are like that. As I said above there are a lot of mixed messages in the Bible. It can be used to create a religion of love, a religion of hate, or just a religion that promotes the status quo. I think Wildernesse's version of Christianity has as much scriptural justification as the less tolerant versions, maybe even moreso. Maybe.

And that's why the stereotypes Wildernesse was complaining about bother me. They accurately describe some Christians, but not all.

Starboy

Aren't we all bigots from time to time. I like to think that if presented with proper argument and sound facts that I can see the possiblity of the other point of view. I guess what bungs it up for a Christian is faith. Can't be a proper Christian without it, but it automatically makes you a bigot. Sorry about that, but that is the price you pay for unquestioning acceptance of the "truth".

Starboy

beyelzu

no,

christians who believe that non christians burn in hell are bigots becuase they think that someone deserves ETERNAL damnation for not being a christian.

furthermore, its not real hard to make the leap, if god says this faggot(or insert any other non-approved lifestyle like atheism) is goin burn in hell, well we might just as well send him there,


historically this leap has been made with great regularity.