Freethought & Rationalism Archive

BadBadBad · 07-25-2003, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
I don't see any admission of being wrong here, I see an admission that his beliefs don't qualify to some as rational. The two aren't at all synonymous.

Quote:

Originally posted by Emotional

My stated belief in God is all make-believe

I don't really believe in God, I'm an atheist, it's just fear of death that's making me cling to Biblical fantasies. I've had enough of saying words and thinking thoughts I don't really believe.

Hence the discussion.

yguy · 07-25-2003, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brettc
What do I "know" about death? Nothing? No, we know a lot more than that. You stop breathing. Your heart stops to beat. Your cells begin to die and break down. You decay.

And then what? Don't tell me "nothing", because you don't know what happens besides all that.

Quote:

What do you "know?"

That you claim to know what you don't know.

Quote:

Should I be afraid because of the absurdities we find in the Bible?

That's your lookout.

Rational BAC · 07-25-2003, 07:22 PM

I know the original post was addressed both to Emotional and to me---------but I don't plan to get in on this one. I think it would just confuse things. Interesting thread just the way it is.

I agree with much of what Emotional says. Not the fear part though. Not true for me anyway.

I do notice that emotional is getting a bit of a pass here because he does admit his belief system is based on fear. Of course fear is what most atheists falsely believe all belief systems are based on anyway. So there is a lot in common there.

BadBadBad · 07-25-2003, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
[B]And then what? Don't tell me "nothing", because you don't know what happens besides all that.

No you said nothing. I questioned that. We know a lot about death. That's all I claimed. Christians are the ones with all the claims that redefine the simple words death and life. What do you know about the truths of those claims?

yguy · 07-25-2003, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brettc
Originally posted by Emotional

My stated belief in God is all make-believe

I don't really believe in God, I'm an atheist, it's just fear of death that's making me cling to Biblical fantasies. I've had enough of saying words and thinking thoughts I don't really believe.

Hence the discussion.

I really have to wonder what sort of mentality thinks it scores points in a debate with obviously fabricated quotes.

yguy · 07-25-2003, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brettc
No you said nothing. I questioned that. We know a lot about death. That's all I claimed.

That's a lie. You also said it was nothing to fear.

SimplyAtheistic · 07-25-2003, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
And then what? Don't tell me "nothing", because you don't know what happens besides all that.

Well, we can make a good hypothesis as to what happens after death. It is almost certain to be true. If I told you that a computer program went to heaven after it was done executing, would you think I am crazy? Hey, you don't KNOW! You have never been terminated by the OS, so you can't possibly know for sure!!! Arguing with christians is fun. :banghead:
Jake

livius drusus · 07-25-2003, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
I really have to wonder what sort of mentality thinks it scores points in a debate with obviously fabricated quotes.

Not a fabrication at all, I'm afraid. Emotional has gone through many such pendulum swings. Brettc's curiosity is perfectly understandable and I hope you have the decency to apologize for the groundless aspersions you cast on his character and mental state.

yguy · 07-25-2003, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JakeJohnson
Well, we can make a good hypothesis as to what happens after death. It is almost certain to be true.

You and I stand in front of a door. I tell you that I don't know what lies behind it, but I do know that once that door closes behind you, it closes forever. Being an adventurous sort, you don't hesitate to amble through that door.

Right?

JGL53 · 07-25-2003, 08:03 PM

Firstly, this is the internet infidel boards so anyone who is not an atheist who posts here will have his beliefs severely questioned.

Secondly, we can argue about how we should always be nice to one another and avoid being rude - and get exactly nowhere. So why bother - let's just argue the issues, and if someone gets too far into what most reasonable people would see as an unnecessary personal attack, the moderators are there to get us back on track.

Thirdly, on a personal note, I am an atheist. I have friends and aquaintances in real life who are not. Sure, none of them are fundamentalists who would admire people like Pat Robertson or be in favor of an American theocracy, but most of them do believe in some sort of afterlife.

If asked, I am sure they would have many rationalizations for a belief in an afterlife that I, personally, would find totally unsatisfactory for myself.

But you know what - they don't give a shit. And as long as they are not theocratic assholes, I don't really give a shit about their irrational (by my view) beliefs. I just accept it, if I don't want to unduly limit my social life, which I don't. We generally just avoid the topic.

But if any of them came here to post their beliefs, I would 'ax' them questions about it. But they ain't coming here.

To give a real life example, I have a friend I see occasionally who had an only son who committed suicide at age 17. He had a genius I.Q. and had everything for which to live.

Emotionally, she HAS to believe in an afterlife. Her guilt over his death could not be dealt with if he is now 'non-existent'. This is her belief with which I have no desire to argue.

I am confident I could handle anything, including a loved one's death, without such a crutch, but she can not. I accept this, we avoid the topic, and we are friends. She knows I'm an atheist and I know about her belief in several new age beliefs, including reincarnation. But we have other interests in common.

She would NEVER come to this board. Perhaps emotional should rethink why he comes here. He's just not gonna be given a free pass because he's not a fundamentalist. All beliefs of all posters are grist for the mill here. Just like all of us here, he will suck it up - or blow.

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07-25-2003, 07:22 PM	#43
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	I know the original post was addressed both to Emotional and to me---------but I don't plan to get in on this one. I think it would just confuse things. Interesting thread just the way it is. I agree with much of what Emotional says. Not the fear part though. Not true for me anyway. I do notice that emotional is getting a bit of a pass here because he does admit his belief system is based on fear. Of course fear is what most atheists falsely believe all belief systems are based on anyway. So there is a lot in common there.

07-25-2003, 08:03 PM	#50
JGL53 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Outer Mongolia Posts: 4,091	Firstly, this is the internet infidel boards so anyone who is not an atheist who posts here will have his beliefs severely questioned. Secondly, we can argue about how we should always be nice to one another and avoid being rude - and get exactly nowhere. So why bother - let's just argue the issues, and if someone gets too far into what most reasonable people would see as an unnecessary personal attack, the moderators are there to get us back on track. Thirdly, on a personal note, I am an atheist. I have friends and aquaintances in real life who are not. Sure, none of them are fundamentalists who would admire people like Pat Robertson or be in favor of an American theocracy, but most of them do believe in some sort of afterlife. If asked, I am sure they would have many rationalizations for a belief in an afterlife that I, personally, would find totally unsatisfactory for myself. But you know what - they don't give a shit. And as long as they are not theocratic assholes, I don't really give a shit about their irrational (by my view) beliefs. I just accept it, if I don't want to unduly limit my social life, which I don't. We generally just avoid the topic. But if any of them came here to post their beliefs, I would 'ax' them questions about it. But they ain't coming here. To give a real life example, I have a friend I see occasionally who had an only son who committed suicide at age 17. He had a genius I.Q. and had everything for which to live. Emotionally, she HAS to believe in an afterlife. Her guilt over his death could not be dealt with if he is now 'non-existent'. This is her belief with which I have no desire to argue. I am confident I could handle anything, including a loved one's death, without such a crutch, but she can not. I accept this, we avoid the topic, and we are friends. She knows I'm an atheist and I know about her belief in several new age beliefs, including reincarnation. But we have other interests in common. She would NEVER come to this board. Perhaps emotional should rethink why he comes here. He's just not gonna be given a free pass because he's not a fundamentalist. All beliefs of all posters are grist for the mill here. Just like all of us here, he will suck it up - or blow.

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