Ted Hoffman

I think I have been honest with myself, but the thing was, I recoiled everytime she poured her almost scornful disaproval about what I thought. I caved in and acquiesced and she piled up her demands more and more.

So in the face of her disaproval, I wanted to just toe the line and be the nice guy who isn't "petty" and troublesome.

I think after a while I started to think that the "society" and her are correct and I am wrong and that I will look so unreasonable if I demanded what her parents and friends will disapprove. So I identified what I wanted with rebellious, anti-social posturing.

Well, they can stuff it. This is my marriage, NOT theirs. If she wants it to be how THEY want, she will have to marry them, not me. We will have to agree on what me and her want FIRST.

I will not do what I dont want to do or what I am not ready to do.

I have expalined above: You know what riles me is that she thinks my culture is unreasonable, but not hers. If I were to follow my culture, I cant be married until my eldest brother gets married.

So I am ready to violate it to marry her, YET she thinks her culture is so important. As far as brideprice and the two families meeting before marriage, that is required by both of our cultures. But its darn expensive because the two families live worlds apart and because of that MANY people in our circumstances (mixed marriages) just meet the parents of the bride then get married (or move in) and the two families can meet later as a formality.

Those cultures were set a long while ago when the man would be coming from not more than 100 kilometers away - and often, was a tribesman but with no relationship to the family. So they are anachronistic in a modern world where mixed marriages take place and our unrealistic cultures are also evidently unable to sustain themselves and are being abandoned and dealt with expediently etc.

Earlier, when I wanted her to move in first, she insisted we must have a wedding and get a legal marriage certificates. Now suddenly, those are not enough, or even that important. First are the cultural requirements.

As per her culture (the main difference), I have to first go to her home accompanied by a brother and an uncle of mine(someone I respect - to indicate I am serious about marrying her and to deter me from backing out of the proposal). Then the two "families" meet. They then give us a date during which we are supposed to go with 5 or seven goats. Then I am supposed to kill one (of course by tackling it, tying its feet, and slitting its damned throat), which we will then proceed to roast and have a feast. If the parents chew that goat, she is my wife from that moment on and then we negotiate the bridewealth.

The fact that its a bunch of crap that I have no respect for at all makes it even more difficult. Put in the fact that its expensive and unnecessary into the equation and it really gets weird. I was ready to set up a wedding comitee to raise the necessary funds but she wants us to sit down and "plan" - thats when I will tell her I am not going along with that shit anymore.

I have had it with being compliant, nice, amenable and respectful.

HelenM

Intensity,

It seems to me that you and she have big communications problems which is a reason to go to some sort of counseling, imo, so you can work on them.

I say this because you seem to have a pattern where you agree to whatever she wants, so as not to upset her, then afterwards you get angry with her - although it's not really her fault if you agreed to things that you didn't really want to agree with. And when you communicate to her, in anger, she withdraws from you.

So then you miss her and do whatever it takes to get her back which means you agree to whatever she wants all over again...then you will go home and be angry again and the whole cycle will repeat.

I hope you will read admice's post on Strummin' for Jesus - she had some excellent comments about how communication is at the core of a relationship. And neither you or your fiance seem to be good at telling the other directly how you feel. I don't think that will change naturally. You will have to work at it - but it will be well worth it. If you don't, then you'll continue to be frustrated that you don't tell her what you really think and feel and she will feel that way too. And it will be a big hindrance in your relationship and might force you apart down the road even if you manage to stay together for a while, cycling through repressing your feelings, then angry outbursts met with withdrawal, then finally an emotional (probably tearful) discussion and reconciliation. That's very emotionally draining - wouldn't you like to change it? I hope so. I would find it almost unbearable to have a relationship like that.

If you do change it then you'll find you can still be respectful and amenable because you won't be continually frustrated that you didn't tell her what you really think. You can be appropriately compliant so that each of you is flexible and willing to meet the other person half-way, neither of you having to 'cave in' totally to the other one, but probably both of you making some compromises. And I think you'll both be happier. But if she's not willing to change things and have more open, honest communication be the norm in your relationship, then maybe she isn't the person for you. I don't think you'll ever be happy as long as you are not being open with her. And as much as you might say "she makes it hard to be open" it's still your choice. You can take the lead in open communication and see if she follows. But do tell her what you're doing so she understands what you are trying to improve in the relationship, rather than assuming this is just another 'cycle' and soon you'll revert to agreeing with whatever she wants, again. If she knows you cycle she'll just wait out your anger, confident you'll be agreeing with her again soon. And I'd say that's the last thing you want in your relationship - to set up a pattern like that. Yet it sounds like you already have one.

No offense...but it's hard to see you go from one extreme to the other and I really do think communication is the problem. I have no reason to think she's 'the wrong person for you' - unless she is not willing to move towards better communication, in which case she might be.

take care
Helen

LLaurieG

(Laurie) There is way too much conflict here. Too much fighting, bad communicating, backgrounds & goals you do not share, differences in timing... the list goes on. This is not a healthy relationship, which I sensed from the start. It doesn't matter that you've dated each other for six years. That just shows it's been six years and you're still not getting it right! She is not your true partner; you are not her true partner. In my opinion, you need to suck it up, quit beating a dead horse, and move on with your respective lives.

By the way, thanks for the background re: your tribe's typically brutal treatment of women. It's always illuminating to see what different people grew up with; see how their formative attitudes were forged. Honestly I think you've made a good deal of progress.

For what it's worth, I spent NINE years together with "the wrong man," five of them living together with him. We had some things in common, for which I loved him, but he too was overly controlling, and from a background (Assemblies of God church) repressive of women. I fought VERY hard to "work" on the relationship, all the time; chronic, exhausting conflict. Luckily I got a job and moved away from him - and finally met, and married my soulmate. What's the difference? Harmony. Mutual respect. The same goals. He's more important to me than my family [tribe]; I'm more important to him than his family [tribe].

When you find the person where being together with her is tranquil, NOURISHING, restful - not a fight! - then that's the one.