Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GeoTheo · 10-02-2002, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ex-preacher:
God sends you to hell because he loves you so much that he wants you to have a choice. Ah, you say, "I have looked at the evidence and cannot make myself believe sonthing which I think is untrue." Well, you see God had to make sure there wasn't too much evidence, otherwise you wouldn't have a choice. He loves you soooooo much!

No,
wrong. Seperation from God is Hell. That is believed simply to be the way it is. Some people experience the reality of this Hell in this life.
These types of people often accept Christ as there savior. No one needs to convince them they are seperated from God and in Hell. They already know. They just want to know the way to God and out of Hell. The gospel pisses everyone off unless you are this type of person. The Bible itself even acknowledges this fact. What do you make of that?

GeoTheo · 10-02-2002, 05:24 PM

Think about this for a second:
Some Christian comes up to a person and says "The Bible says that all have sinned and face eternal death in Hell, but the good news is that God provided a way out so that you can know him and spend eternity in heaven with Him through believing in his son JC."

What kind of a person would tell him where to stick his gospel tract and what kind of person will listen and then pray and accept Jesus?

A person that is of a broken and contrite spirit will accept Jesus, because they already have a sense of the kind of sad state they are in.
Christ comes to those who need a physician.
The gospel is an insult to people with pride in themselves.
It says "You are wrong. You are headed for disaster. You cannot save yourself. You need to rely God totally through faith."
If you're response is
"Pardon me?!?!"
You are not ready to accept it.
This is a given.
The Bible correctly predicts all the objections to the gospel seen throughout this forum.
I'd say that is a pretty good case for the truth of it.
Nobody says to themselves
"Hey, I'm really smart I have everything going for me, life is good. I think I'll say that I am a wretch heading for Hell because I suck so bad and lay down like a helpless loser and beg God to save me."

[ October 02, 2002: Message edited by: GeoTheo ]

daemon · 10-02-2002, 05:45 PM

Quote:

GeoTheo: Some people experience the reality of this Hell in this life.
These types of people often accept Christ as there savior. No one needs to convince them they are seperated from God and in Hell. They already know. They just want to know the way to God and out of Hell. The gospel pisses everyone off unless you are this type of person.

What? The gospel does not piss me off, yet I don't believe myself to be separated from God or in Hell. What are you talking about?

daemon · 10-02-2002, 05:46 PM

Quote:

GeoTheo: Think about this for a second:
Some Christian comes up to a person and says "The Bible says that all have sinned and face eternal death in Hell, but the good news is that God provided a way out so that you can know him and spend eternity in heaven with Him through believing in his son JC."

What kind of a person would tell him where to stick his gospel tract and what kind of person will listen and then pray and accept Jesus?

Why are those the only two options?

Vanderzyden · 10-02-2002, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kind Bud:


Aye, there's the rub. How do you determine which sources are reliable, and which ones aren't?

Yes, that is the question for you, in light of your mention of "Heaven".

You ask:

Quote:

"What if I want to go to Heaven?"

followed by the non-sensical qualifier

Quote:

"but I don't want to have anything to do with God when I get there, or while I'm here for that matter?"

This is analogous to the "clay complaining to the potter". Surely, you may indeed avoid God altogether. However, you will most assuredly not get everything you want. Jesus had something to say about it. Take up your petition with him.

Regarding reliability:

-- Upon what basis would you refute the reliability of the gospels?

-- What critical studies have you undertaken to convince yourself that they are unreliable?

Vanderzyden

Vanderzyden · 10-02-2002, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by daemon:
What? ...I don't believe myself to be separated from God or in Hell.

Have you asked yourself if your beliefs are justified?

Ask yourself: Upon thinking or acting wrongly, do I respond as I should when I recognize a sense of guilt?

Vanderzyden

K · 10-02-2002, 08:05 PM

RJS:

If it were show to be true that the universe was filled with events that had no cause, would you be willing to admit that your proof of God was worthless? I'll give you a heads up - the universe is filled with events that have no cause. Quantum mechanics blows your proof out of the water.

GeoTheo:

If Hell is simply separation from God, like I'm experiencing here on earth, sign me up.

By the way, if God is omnipresent, how can I be separated from Him? If God sustains all life, how can I live eternally separated from Him? If Hell is torment, and God isn't a torturer, why does He sustain our existence in separation from Himself?

Starboy · 10-02-2002, 08:12 PM

After several decades of observing the behavior of all the good Christians in the world I think I would prefer to go to hell. I suspect there would be a better class of people in hell.

Starboy

[ October 02, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]

scigirl · 10-02-2002, 09:12 PM

I love the statement, "Hell is separation from God." It always makes me laugh.

Well - let's suppose there is no god. Once we realize this fact as humans, we are then 'separated' from the belief.

Hell, in other words, is education, liberation, and freedom from the bonds of religion.

Scigirl, an avid supporter of Hell

jj · 10-02-2002, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xeren:
Theists, an honest question:

How could god send me to hell for not believing that Jesus is my savior, simply because random events of my life have not led me to any evidence that i see as conclusive?
-xeren

Because you ask too many questions, and you dare to exercise the apparatus that he gave you!

(bear in mind I'm an anti-creationist, non-deist here, when you consider the tone of voice)

10-02-2002, 05:24 PM	#32
GeoTheo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bemidji Posts: 1,197	Think about this for a second: Some Christian comes up to a person and says "The Bible says that all have sinned and face eternal death in Hell, but the good news is that God provided a way out so that you can know him and spend eternity in heaven with Him through believing in his son JC." What kind of a person would tell him where to stick his gospel tract and what kind of person will listen and then pray and accept Jesus? A person that is of a broken and contrite spirit will accept Jesus, because they already have a sense of the kind of sad state they are in. Christ comes to those who need a physician. The gospel is an insult to people with pride in themselves. It says "You are wrong. You are headed for disaster. You cannot save yourself. You need to rely God totally through faith." If you're response is "Pardon me?!?!" You are not ready to accept it. This is a given. The Bible correctly predicts all the objections to the gospel seen throughout this forum. I'd say that is a pretty good case for the truth of it. Nobody says to themselves "Hey, I'm really smart I have everything going for me, life is good. I think I'll say that I am a wretch heading for Hell because I suck so bad and lay down like a helpless loser and beg God to save me." [ October 02, 2002: Message edited by: GeoTheo ]</p>

10-02-2002, 08:12 PM	#38
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	After several decades of observing the behavior of all the good Christians in the world I think I would prefer to go to hell. I suspect there would be a better class of people in hell. Starboy [ October 02, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]</p>

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10-02-2002, 08:05 PM	#37
K Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,485	RJS: If it were show to be true that the universe was filled with events that had no cause, would you be willing to admit that your proof of God was worthless? I'll give you a heads up - the universe is filled with events that have no cause. Quantum mechanics blows your proof out of the water. GeoTheo: If Hell is simply separation from God, like I'm experiencing here on earth, sign me up. By the way, if God is omnipresent, how can I be separated from Him? If God sustains all life, how can I live eternally separated from Him? If Hell is torment, and God isn't a torturer, why does He sustain our existence in separation from Himself?

10-02-2002, 09:12 PM	#39
scigirl Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seattle Posts: 4,261	I love the statement, "Hell is separation from God." It always makes me laugh. Well - let's suppose there is no god. Once we realize this fact as humans, we are then 'separated' from the belief. Hell, in other words, is education, liberation, and freedom from the bonds of religion. Scigirl, an avid supporter of Hell

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