Diotima

Not Gospel, the Bible! Rima, I meant the Bible

Rima

Hello to all my friends:
I read the Bible , I enjoy what I believe and what my logic mind led me to believe that is a divine Revelation, and I reject what is nonsense and absurd
I am a believer , who believe in God , and I believe that the worst blasphemy is telling lies in His name
my point in this topic is that , God never punish his own craetions , God loves us , and he would not never punish us , because His mercy is higher and bigger than our sins

these verses are speaking of an unjust and unfair God who is punishing all humans because of Adams mistakes , God who is making no sense at all , he has punished EVE with delivery pain
and we all know that delivery pain is caused by Hormone disbalance (serotonin)

He has punished serpents by making them move on their belly ,the question is how did they move before that

and then 1000.000 years later God has changed his mind and he let Jesus to be killed on cross to pay our sins off (but for the second time)

NONSENSE

Sunfair

Uh, slight hijack, but that's a bad idea. (Yes, I know you're not a woman, but still...) Epidurals have made childbirth relatively painless- it numbs the whole area pretty effectively. And once labor is done the major pain is over. Any leftover soreness is minimal compared to the extended pain of recovering from a Caesarian, because they do have to cut through the abdominal muscles to reach the womb.

[/end hijack]

I once read the theory that once the "curses" on humans were overcome (I guess serpents don't qualify, heh.) that the "end times" or something like that would arrive. I think it was in a Kaballistic book- I'm thinking "Path of the Kaballah", but I could be wrong. (It was a long time ago.) Don't recall the author at all.

Anyway, it claimed that humanity was pretty close to breaking the curses with painfree childbirth being so common and with men being able to earn their living without physical toil (i.e. sitting in an office rather than plowing a field, etc.) and that when that was achieved God would act. Next stage of the big plan or something crazy like that...

Sorry so vague- stupid lazy memory...

Doctor X

Rima:

Understand then that your criteria for choosing what is "revelation" and what is nonsense is only your subjectivity.

For example, do you accept some of YHWH's laws whilst rejecting child sacrifice? Why?

Do you accept a Junior who refuses to save people?

Now it really is not my intention to subject you to a "can your god make a car so fuel inefficient he cannot pay for it?" harrange . . . harrangue . . . admonishment. I merely wish to stress that the criteria for choice is subjective. This is fine, in my opinion, provided that people understand it and not expect others to share their subjectivity.

--J.D.

Diotima

The criteria that Doctor X mentions are subjective indeed but there is another issue. If you choose to adopt a faith, you take the whole package... if you want to pick up what suits best to your logic, why not establish a new religion of your own.

I am not suggesting that it's obligatory to believe in the serpant tale if you believe in God but you should just look for the symbol that hides behind and project it to a bigger context.

Vinnie

Re the OP:

I discussed many issues relevant to this thread in both of these articles:

Original Sin

http://www.acfaith.com/originalsin.html

Penal Substitution

http://www.acfaith.com/penal.html

Vinnie