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Old 02-21-2003, 09:45 AM   #21
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Originally posted by peacenik
Also before you start bringing up scripture from the Old Testament, especially Leviticus, I would remind you that most Christian churches do not follow the vast majority of commands found in this book. After all I would be willing to bet that you do not have a problem eating pork, worshiping on Sunday rather than the sabbath, or wearing clothing with 2 different cloths, so why do you use this same book of the Bible to condemn homosexuality.
Don't forget cutting the hair that grows from your temples. If any Orthodox Jew, who follows all the above rules, wants to tell me that they believe what I do is sinful, I will take them seriously and not consider them hypocritical. However, if some xian wants to pick and choose which rules to follow, I can tell just them I picked and chose for myself, and I picked different ones.

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This is entirely leaving aside the fact that the OT says that a MAN shall not lay with another MAN as he lays with a woman . So completely homosexual men (as opposed to a bisexual man) and bisexual and lesbian women do not break this rule.
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Anyway, there are churches in California (and probably other places) that will marry homosexuals that choose to be married. Xian homosexuals can enter into a holy union in the eyes of god, and live a life of monogamy without having to abandon their religion or live a life of sin. Those churches are in the minority, and of course the marriage is not recognized by the state, but they can be found if a truly devout xian homosexual couple really wants to get married in the eyes of god.

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Old 02-21-2003, 11:52 AM   #22
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I believe that many people who have inclinations for vices, whatever they may be, have a choice whether or not they are going to act on those inclinations. In this instance, one could choose to be celibate, if they wanted to, and not act on their natural tendencies. Many people do that.
So now you're calling homosexuality a vice? Now, I'm straight, so homosexuality is not for me (plus I'm still working out old homophobic feelings), but I certainly don't feel it's a vice. You continue to put a negative spin on something which just isn't. Just because I won't sleep with another man doesn't mean I can tell others not to.

Peacenik, I agree in general with what you propose. I don't think it'd do any harm for Xianity to endorse homosexual monogamy just as they do heterosexual monogamy.
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Old 02-21-2003, 07:24 PM   #23
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Spurly, do you believe in justification by faith alone? Do you believe that all are sinners, but may be saved through grace?

Then by being tolerant of those who share your particular sins (you mentioned pride and hatred as examples) you show Christian love. You quite properly encourage imperfect humans to put themselves in the path of Christ's grace.

But when you insist that secular laws enforce your views on homosexuality, when you make it a public characteristic of your church as opposed to liberal christianity that you will not accept homosexual couples as examples of faithfulness to one another, you drive them away from Christianity. Although every church has members who are known to have strayed from their vows you insist that welcoming a homosexual couple to attend your church as a family would be condoning an abomination, so they seek their spiritual comfort elsewhere. You are responsible for their turning away from their chance of salvation.

How does that make you feel, as a Christian?
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