Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Magus55 · 03-16-2003, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Godbert
quick question:
all the other (forgivable) sins - are they forgiven automatically or do you have to do sth like pray for forgiveness to be forgiven for forgivable sins?

You have to have faith in Jesus, admit to him you're a sinner, and sincerely ask for his forgiveness.

Queen of Swords · 03-16-2003, 07:33 AM

I'm a Holy Ghostbuster!

Daggah · 03-16-2003, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Its blasphemy because you don't believe. You don't see that? You don't believe the Holy Spirit or God exists, therefore you are committing the sin of unbelief which is the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. God doesn't believe in Atheists, as much as you say you don't believe God exists and never have, he gave everyone the innate sense to search for a creator. Many people just choose to supress it. Sorry but when you stand before God at judgement, i doubt he will let you slide with the excuse " but i didn't believe in you"!

Look at the first verse again. Obviously from the context, the verse is referring to speaking against the 'holy spirit,' and not unbelief. The verse is meant more literally.

To repeat:

"And everyone that says a word against the Son of Man, that will be forgiven; But he that blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will not be forgiven."

Obviously, the verse is comparing "saying a word against the son of man" vs "saying a word against the holy spirit." It's comparing the two acts.

Magus55 · 03-16-2003, 03:10 PM

Explanation of unpardonable sin.

http://www.biblestudyplanet.com/d8.htm

Daggah · 03-16-2003, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Explanation of unpardonable sin.

http://www.biblestudyplanet.com/d8.htm

Ah yes. Faith allows one to circumvent a decent understanding of language.

Sorry, but that's hardly convincing.

Yellum Notnef · 03-16-2003, 03:51 PM

Quote:

http://www.biblestudyplanet.com/d8.htm

I don't know what planet they're on,but it sure isn't Earth.

CALDONIA · 03-16-2003, 04:21 PM

From the motion picture, "The Wizard of Oz:"

Cowardly Lion (when faced with capture by the Wicked Witch): "I DO believe in ghosts, I do I do I DO!"

MrDarwin · 03-16-2003, 06:32 PM

Looks like I'll have to chalk one more up to Christian doublespeak: "unforgivable" means "forgivable".

ax · 03-16-2003, 11:46 PM

It seems to be a warning that jesus said that he didn't think through. I thought that god was "all forgiving". Appharently not. It may be an added text also. But in the long run, it's just another fault, to add on the pile.

Amaranth · 03-17-2003, 07:50 AM

Hiya, folks.

I've been lurking for a bit, but I figure there's no time like the present to join in the fun.

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Its blasphemy because you don't believe. You don't see that? You don't believe the Holy Spirit or God exists, therefore you are committing the sin of unbelief which is the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. God doesn't believe in Atheists, as much as you say you don't believe God exists and never have, he gave everyone the innate sense to search for a creator. Many people just choose to supress it. Sorry but when you stand before God at judgement, i doubt he will let you slide with the excuse " but i didn't believe in you"!

A few questions, Magus:

Your statement is contradictory, in that it defines blasphemy as unbelief, then says that we all, in some fashion, do believe. If god does not believe in athiests, why bother with a punishment for disbelief? Without athiesm, aren't the remaining options merely versions of idolatry, or placing other gods before him, both of which Moses covered quite well?

I also have to question this assertation that "everyone" has the "innate sense to search for a creator". What makes you so certain of this?

The statement that "Many people just choose to suppress [the innante sense to search for a creator]" reminds me a lot of the age old athiest argument that a theist must suppress their senses and grasp of reality in order to believe in god(s). The difference, however, is that modern psychology classifies most people who seem to be unable to grasp reality as schitzophrenic, while I've yet to see anything on people who suppress their "innante sense to search for a creator". Would you be so kind as to help me, here?

Lastly - I think the denial of belief clause will also fail when many Xians (love that abbreviation, btw) stand before the Islamic god. Or the Hindu gods. Or perhaps even the Jewish god (wouldn't that be interesting). Even assuming that this "innante sense to search for a creator" exists, how could you that it wasn't placed there by Allah, or Vishnu, or...?

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03-16-2003, 07:33 AM	#22
Queen of Swords Contributor Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Canada. Finally. Posts: 10,155	I'm a Holy Ghostbuster!

03-16-2003, 03:10 PM	#24
Magus55 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 7,204	Explanation of unpardonable sin. http://www.biblestudyplanet.com/d8.htm

03-16-2003, 04:21 PM	#27
CALDONIA Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sunnyvale,CA Posts: 371	From the motion picture, "The Wizard of Oz:" Cowardly Lion (when faced with capture by the Wicked Witch): "I DO believe in ghosts, I do I do I DO!"

03-16-2003, 06:32 PM	#28
MrDarwin Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 4,140	Looks like I'll have to chalk one more up to Christian doublespeak: "unforgivable" means "forgivable".

03-16-2003, 11:46 PM	#29
ax Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In your mind! Posts: 289	It seems to be a warning that jesus said that he didn't think through. I thought that god was "all forgiving". Appharently not. It may be an added text also. But in the long run, it's just another fault, to add on the pile.

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