Plebe

Buffman,
After reading these articles, it's not too difficult to put two and two together on the interdependence of Politics, Economies and Religion and my conclusion that it is here to stay and influence and media coverage will fluctuate with world economies. There's even more to be found when you consider that gov't funding is available to secular as well as religious NGO's which are international such as <a href="http://www.soros.org" target="_blank">http://www.soros.org</a>
I am by no means an expert on any of this information, but these are the result of my findings and observation.
Sorry my earlier posts were so long.
<a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/interviews/int2002-09-12.htm" target="_blank">http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/interviews/int2002-09-12.htm</a> [2 articles on the page, keep scrolling to read them]
..."I sometimes say that God has a very grim sense of humor, because so many of the areas on these religious fault-lines are also the key oil-producing regions. So religious politics are oil politics. I'm not sure how much we've taken that fact aboard.

Let's imagine another situation, which is not too hard to contemplate, in which you had a full-scale war break out in Nigeria between Christians and Muslims, with the prospect of millions being killed. The potential there for drawing in regional powers, or powers concerned about oil wealth, is enormous. But people just aren't paying attention to such possibilities. As time goes by, though, such violence is going to be harder and harder to ignore. I think this will be much more of an issue for the United States, where you could see a significant Christian voting block emerging, than in Europe, where Christianity is largely a dead issue."

<a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/96aug/nxtchrch/nxtchrch.htm" target="_blank">http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/96aug/nxtchrch/nxtchrch.htm</a> [an exploration of the forms Protestantism is taking in the US in response to the unchurched.]

Buffman

Plebe

Sorry my earlier posts were so long.

Good gracious! No need for apologies...especially to someone who tends to make long posts himself. Personally, I don't mind length just as long as I don't keep losing my place as I read...and attempt to simultaneously research the specific thought/comment. (It's a personal problem.)

..."I sometimes say that God has a very grim sense of humor, because so many of the areas on these religious fault-lines are also the key oil-producing regions. So religious politics are oil politics. I'm not sure how much we've taken that fact aboard.

I don't recall that oil had much to do with the Crusades. (I couldn't resist!) However, I do think that the concept that "religious beliefs are commodities based" needs further analysis. Perhaps greed and power play bigger roles. Ancient, liquid, bio-mass merely represents a current medium of financial exchange. (It replaced horses,oxen and humans as the "beasts-of-burden" energy sources... essentially ending that justification for the slave trade.) That does not mean that I don't appreciate the role that oil plays in geo-politics...or how religious faith beliefs are used/manipulated to further those geo-political goals. (I used to invest in photovoltaics because I thought that was the ultimate answer to the finite oil deposits and radiological waste contamination problems associated with nuclear power. Today I am becoming more concerned with desalinization technology. Perhaps I should be looking at where the religious fault lines exist concerning potable water...he said with tongue in cheek.)

I agree about the potential problems over oil in Nigeria. Just look at the political ones in Venezuela. And there is always Mexico. IMHO, humanity is already in the Natural Resources War. Just look at what America has done to its natural resources in order to maintain a supposed, ever-increasing, standard of living for such a small segment of the earth's human population. I don't think it is difficult to forecast what will happen in places like China and India as their populations demand standards of living comparable to those of America and Western Europe. And what is the true basis of the problem? Not oil! It's population growth. Humans appear to be much like lemmings. Perhaps we should be doing more scientific investigation into their life-cycles to better appreciate our own.

<a href="http://ecology.tiem.utk.edu/~king/mam99/causes.htm" target="_blank">http://ecology.tiem.utk.edu/~king/mam99/causes.htm</a>

The "exploitation" of oil is only one example of the similarities.

Thank you for the excellent URLs. I was already familiar with the efforts of George Soros. (I doubt he would be very popular with this current U.S. administration.)

<a href="http://www.soros.org/usprograms/about.htm" target="_blank">http://www.soros.org/usprograms/about.htm</a>

I found the Jenkins interview interesting but not exactly a new enlightenment. I think he should have defined "American Christians" a little more accurately by Sect. (i.e.: American "Protestant" Christians) Thus we would have to examine the "Southern" growth of Christianity in terms of Catholic or Protestant in order to grasp the magnitude of the influence they will have on world affairs. The wars between Christians have been just as plentiful and bloody as the wars between Christians and Muslims.)

<a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/interviews/int2002-09-12.htm" target="_blank">http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/interviews/int2002-09-12.htm</a>

(Extract)
It's similar to the type of Christianity that the media in the U.S. don't like to pay attention to—the John Ashcroft brand.

Exactly. You'd never guess from looking at history that through most of the twentieth century at least half of American Christians were evangelical/Pentecostal fundamentalists. They really got lost to the media between the Scopes trial back in 1925 and the election of Jimmy Carter in 1976. And suddenly people discovered them and thought, My God, there are millions of these people out there, this must be a right-wing explosion. No, they've always been there, you've just never noticed them. It's a question of what you see and what's really there. The famous phrase is, If I hadn't believed it, I wouldn't have seen it with my own eyes.
(End extract)

The Next Church: You will find several of these fundamentalist Protestant Mega-Churches in my locale. They certainly do represent just how formidable is the hold that superstition has on the American public and how successful has been the propaganda issued from many of those pulpits. (Of course if there were no gasoline, perhaps not so many would be able to attend the entertainment services.) Chortle! Chortle!

Plebe

I agree, humanity already is in a natural resources war and I can appreciate your point of view with respect to desalination. I worked with a retired CIA man who had worked in a patent office in Washington and he had alot of info on various patents related to desalination and this was back in 1993!
Thank you for the excellent URLs. I was already familiar with the efforts of George Soros. (I doubt he would be very popular with this current U.S. administration.)

<a href="http://www.soros.org/usprograms/about.htm" target="_blank">http://www.soros.org/usprograms/about.htm</a>
You're welcome and I'm glad you found those URL's excellent. One thing I became aware of over Jim Roger's online coverage of his round the world trip was that from beginning to end I was able to watch his website evolve. Knowing of his involvement and prior official business partnership with George Soros as a hedge fund manager at one point the Soros website listed all of the cities, states and countries where his foundations were and wouldn't you know, almost every single one was where Jim Rogers <a href="http://www.jimrogers.com" target="_blank">http://www.jimrogers.com</a> went to visit on his round the world trip, both this last trip AND the trip he made when he wrote the book "Investment Biker." When I have the funds to invest I have all of this data on those countries to go on which will help me with my investment decisions knowing full well that US $ are being put to use to influence the trends/economies in them..in other words, taking heed to the adage "Follow the Money!"

4th Generation Atheist

A sort of related question: if religions, especially the evangelical and/or fundamentalist types, do well in difficult times, then why does the New Age do so well when times are flush? The 60s saw an explosion of interest among the youth in Eastern religion, the occult &c.; the 80s brought all those crystals and channelers and whatnot. It seems that it's not just an issue of supernaturalist belief doing well at certain times, but of types of belief correlating to outward circumstances.

Buffman

4th G.A.

Great question! Tough question! IMHO, we will only know the accurate answers after we have resolved all the issues surrounding the Brain-Mind interface. (i.e.: What is self-awareness? Spirituality? The definition of Soul? What happens when the body dies? Etc.) Until that time, the unknown and associated fears will cause humans to look for answers in whatever places (or in those organizations/individuals) that appear to offer any. That's my "guess."

4th Generation Atheist

Agreed....can-o'-worms at twelve o'clock, Buffman!