Mageth

When you look at it....you see that Christ has inspired people like Mother Teresa, but that religion has also in one way or another led to such people as Hitler etc..

Actually, the idea of Christ has inspired people, as has the idea of Buddha, Allah, Vishnu, ....

There is something about the potential existence of a Divine creator which can drive Humans to such extremes of compassion and cruelty. I wonder why?...

That's it! It's the potential existence of a god that drives humans to such extremes. Especially since the Abrahamic god is himself portrayed in the bible as exhibiting both compassion and cruelty.

When you get down to brass tacks, humans are capable of both compassion and cruelty. The various gods they believe in are used to justify cruelty, or to find escape from the guilt of cruelty, when they feel the need to be cruel, and to claim reward for compassion when they feel they've been compassionate.

BioBeing

Humans can drive themselves to the extremes of cruelty and compassion without a god figure. They just use that as an excuse.

PS read this thread on Mother Theresa to see what we think of her around here. Same boat as Hilter...

Disciple

That's it! It's the potential existence of a god that drives humans to such extremes. Especially since the Abrahamic god is himself portrayed in the bible as exhibiting both compassion and cruelty.

When you get down to brass tacks, humans are capable of both compassion and cruelty. The various gods they believe in are used to justify cruelty, or to find escape from the guilt of cruelty, when they feel the need to be cruel, and to claim reward for compassion when they feel they've been compassionate. [/B][/QUOTE]

But why does this particular potential idea, lead to such extremes? What is it about this idea, which leads people to states of bliss and security, or alternatively to shocking horror? This particular idea and its arguements and defences make up the majority of dicussion on this board...

You see? There is something amazing about the potential existence of a creator and there are reasons for this...We are almost driven to believe or disbelieve. Whilst there are a few true agnostics, most people know what they truly feel inside one way or the other...

Mageth

For the non-believer, how do you explain the feeling that having a direct relationship with Christ, offers?

Easy; it's a feeling that arises from imagining that you are having a relationship with Christ.

There is much love, acceptance, safety, warmth, relationship, love and on and on....

I don't imagine I have a relationship with any non-corporeal being, and I have those feelings in my life.

Are millions of people just imaging these feelings? Am I?

You're not imaginging those feelings, you're imagining the relationship.

Disciple

Are millions of people just imaging these feelings? Am I?

You're not imaginging those feelings, you're imagining the relationship. [/B][/QUOTE]

You have no evidence of Christ in your life and that is why I expect you do not believe in him.

You have no evidence of whether I am imagining this relationship and yet your words make it seem like you *know* that I am imagining this.

????

seanie

No.

We *think* you're imagining it.

Your personal testimony is all well and good but there's a problem.

You may indeed be a witness to Christ. But you're an unreliable witness.

As are we all in such circumstances.

Bring us evidence and we'll reconsider. But really, really believing doesn't constitute evidence. Nor does claiming to *know*.

Mageth

But why does this particular potential idea, lead to such extremes? What is it about this idea, which leads people to states of bliss and security, or alternatively to shocking horror?

For "bliss and security", perhaps it gives people an idea of Something Greater Than Themselves to cling to, a surrogate, universal, eternal, loving Father Figure. Mature people break away from the need for a Father and learn to go their own way, to find their own bliss and security within themselves. People that cling to the idea of a Cosmic Father never grow up.

As far as "shocking horror", the idea, as I said, gives the perpetrator Something Greater Than Themselves to justify their crimes, and to assuage their guilt if they feel any. "I'm about my Father's business", so to speak.

This particular idea and its arguements and defences make up the majority of dicussion on this board...

Umm, so?

You see? There is something amazing about the potential existence of a creator and there are reasons for this...

Mainly that some people never grow up and learn to think and care for themselves, so cling to the idea of a Heavenly Father to think and care for them.

What's amazing to me is that adults can still believe in imaginary friends.

We are almost driven to believe or disbelieve.

I wasn't driven to disbelieve. I just outgrew my need to cling to Something Greater Than Myself, outgrew my need for an external Father/Comforter.

Whilst there are a few true agnostics, most people know what they truly feel inside one way or the other...

My disbelief is not a "feeling". I'm an atheist; I lack belief in god because there's no evidence for its existence. I can't speak for agnostics because I'm not one.

Mageth

You have no evidence of Christ in your life and that is why I expect you do not believe in him.

I was a Christian for the first 45 years of my life, born and raised in a Christian home, raised to believe in Christ.

You have no evidence of whether I am imagining this relationship and yet your words make it seem like you *know* that I am imagining this.

I do have evidence - from personal experience. I too once imagined such a relationship, had such feelings. Being so deeply indoctrinated, it took me 45 years to outgrow the need for an imaginary Father and to learn to stand on my own.

Disciple

This idea.....is there a God or not?

It has split mankind, it has uplifted some and destroyed others..

This idea....it is the defining and most important question in all of history.

This idea...we need to make a decison and some go one way and some another.

Saying you are an Atheist because there is no evidence that there is a God, is strange, when you consider that there is NO evidence that there is NOT a God. Thats right, there is NO EVIDENCE either way which can be proved to another.

The only way to GOD is through Christ and untill you realise that it is possible to always look for evidence in the wrong places..

Seek Christ, not Christians, or the Church...just Christ

seanie

What's your stance on Leprechauns?