southernhybrid

Actually, we atheists are quite convinced that this god of yours is just a myth. We are just pointing out that is he did exist, which he doesn't except in your mind, he comes across as quite an evil despot by human standards. It amazes me how Christians can continue to belief in a very old myth that makes no sense. How you can accept this double standard for your god is simply beyond my comprehension.

Spaz

Lol, jesus tap-dancing christ magus. God breaks some of his own commandments. By my definition, that makes him an asshole.

(actually by my definiton that makes him non-existant, but yeah, in the myths he's an asshole.)

Magus55

Well, there is one of your problems, you aren't innocent. No one is. Jesus is the only human that ever existed who was innocent. You are no more innocent than Hitler was in God's eyes.

Would you grow up QoS? You didn't beat me in anything. All you do is cry and whine about a God you don't believe in, and his ways. Get over it and stop acting like you are better than everyone.

Um, God is sovereign and made the commandments, he can break them if he wants to. Commandments were given for HUMANS!! Not God. He does not have to follow his rules for humans.

And the second part of that sentence. Pot Kettle Black. Your attitude certaintly doesn't portray you any better.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Magus55
Well, there is one of your problems, you aren't innocent.

Oh, but I wasn't talking about myself. It's generally a mistake to jump to conclusions like that, don't you think?

No one is.

What is an unborn child guilty of?

Jesus is the only human that ever existed who was innocent. You are no more innocent than Hitler was in God's eyes.

Then he needs corrective lenses or at least a little dose of reality, if he thinks Hitler and I are on the same level. Though actually, it just occurred to me, since Hitler was also on the genocide track, God might have something in common with him.

Would you grow up QoS? You didn't beat me in anything.

Who said I beat you in anything? I said I "took you on" in debates.

But hey, Magus, if the shoe fits, you keep on wearing it.

All you do is cry and whine about a God you don't believe in, and his ways.

If that's all I do, why do you keep replying to me (though rarely answering questions such as "Please show, using biblical examples if possible, how the statements I have made reflect satan's lies rather than actual crimes committed by your deity-of-choice")?

Get over it and stop acting like you are better than everyone.

I don't act like I'm "better than everyone", but I do think I'm better than the god portrayed in the bible. Of course, that's not saying much, since practically everyone is.

Um, God is sovereign and made the commandments, he can break them if he wants to.

Again, why should we respect someone whose motto is "Do as I say, not as I do"?

Commandments were given for HUMANS!! Not God. He does not have to follow his rules for humans.

Does he have any rules for himself? If anything goes for him, how can he be moral?

Magus55

Unborn Children don't go to Hell.

The only rules he has to follow are those within his nature. He can't go outside of it because it puts him in a paradox ( can't create a rock too big to lift, can't sin, can't not be righteous etc). He created Morality and exists outside of it, therefore isn't bound by it.

Why do you have such a problem with God killing people? He created them, therefore can kill them. He doesn't do it for fun, the people that God killed in the OT deserved it and were criminals. God kills people to execute righteous judgement, not because its fun.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Magus55
Unborn Children don't go to Hell.

Why not? Jesus said "no one comes to the Father except through me". I don't see any proviso for unborn children in there.

Moreover, you said no one was innocent. Do you now have to correct yourself and say that no one except unborn children is innocent? Does an unborn child go to heaven whereas a child who has just been born go to hell?

The only rules he has to follow are those within his nature.

Is his nature good? If so, why has he killed so many people, including unborn children?

He created Morality and exists outside of it, therefore isn't bound by it.

Is he bound by anything? If not, what is to prevent him from throwing everyone in the world into hell immediately? By your reasoning, this would at once become moral, because he would have wanted it.

Why do you have such a problem with God killing people?

Oh, I dunno, just some weird feeling that murder's not quite a decent thing to do to people.

He created them, therefore can kill them.

Why does the act of creation automatically mean he can do whatever he likes with them? If I create a cure for HIV, does that mean I can destroy it and all the children dying of AIDS out there don't get to tell me I was wrong to do so?

He doesn't do it for fun, the people that God killed in the OT deserved it and were criminals.

Does that include the unborn children who died during the Flood? How could they commit crimes from inside the uterus?

God kills people to execute righteous judgement, not because its fun.

Please show how the small children who drowned in the flood deserved rightous judgement.

Yellum Notnef

Perhaps you should ask Radorth to hook you up with some Zen training. He and his idol M. Scott Peck claim Zen training can clear up these pesky Christian paradoxes.

Mageth

QoS, his actions are only heinous to you because you try to fit him in to societies morality. He can do whatever the heck he wants and its ALWAYS just and righteous.

You must have strange definitions for "just" and "righteous". Why don't you give your definitions so we'll know what we're discussing.

You will never comprehend the meaning of absolute justice and righteousness so quite arguing over the issue.

And you will? Do you claim to know the Mind of God, who you claim as the source of "absolute justice and righteousness"? The god you describe, BTW, doesn't seem to have the concept of "absolute justice and righteousness" down himself.

Your frequent demands for posters here to "quit arguing" over an issue is uncalled for and getting very old. Please cease this tactic.

You have already made your choice that if God turns out to exist, you won't follow him, so it doesn't matter anway.

You forget that QoS is arguing against the particular description of the Yahweh God given by humans in the bible. I think that, if god does turn out to exist, it will quite possibly be quite different from that description.

In other words, if god does turn out to exist, it's quite likely that it won't be the particular god you've formed in your thoughts.

You seem to like following Satan's lies and deception instead of God since of course you think you are better than him when trying to fit him into our world.

Note: you're the one trying to fit god into our world, not QoS.

Are you saying Satan wrote the OT description of god, described as vengeful, who indiscriminately kills, who describes himself as creating evil (Is. 45:7), who permitted his friend Satan to persecute Job (killing his family and livestock), and who is several times reported to have purposefully deceived people?

And to those in other religions (e.g. Islam), you're following satan's lies and deception, remember. Do you think you're better than Allah?

Mageth

The only rules he has to follow are those within his nature. He can't go outside of it because it puts him in a paradox ( can't create a rock too big to lift, can't sin, can't not be righteous etc). He created Morality and exists outside of it, therefore isn't bound by it.

If you're speaking of the Law, then god did bind himself by covenant to the Law. He also bound himself by covenant to the "New Covenant." Your statement "He can do whatever the heck he wants" would make god a liar.

Not being bound to (or, rather, by) the morality he "created" for humankind is the antithesis of justice and righteousness, BTW. Either he's bound by the morality he created for us, or he's not just and righteous. It's odd that a "just and righteous" god would create creatures and then impose a stricter morality on them than he himself is bound to.

Further, if he has to follow rules within his own nature, do those rules include some kind of internal morality? Does this not conflict directly with your statement above that "He can do whatever the heck he wants?" That's no morality at all; that's amorality. Your god is amoral, not moral, and thus not much use as an "objective" source for morality.

He created them, therefore can kill them.

Unless they're riding iron chariots, which appear to be god's kryptonite. Gotta get me one of those.

winstonjen

Point 1 - QoS never claimed to 'beat' you, just that she debated with you here on II.

Point 2 - What makes you think YOU have won? You sound like the arrogant one to me. You certainly haven't convinced too many people here, and its people like you who turn people away from Xianity. Seems like god may send you to hell because you're doing such a shitty job converting people.

Point 3 - you have no decent arguments or points, at least not from what I've seen.

Then your god is setting a pathetic example, and doesn't deserve to be worshipped.