Goliath

keyser_soze,

To Bede, you said:

But of course! After all, Bede can cite a person who wrote something who doesn't believe that xians sacked the Great Library. Therefore, it must be true! Gee, maybe I'll be able to get my PhD in history along with a PhD in Mathematics next year, after all!

Sincerely,

Goliath

Goliath

Bede,

Shall I take that as a concession on your part?

Sincerely,

Goliath

Daggah

You're inside now, Radorth. It's time to take the rose-colored sunglasses off. They're not your color anyway.

Fundamentalist Christians - mostly here in America, but with smaller movements in other countries - have been trying their hardest to disrupt scientific education, particularly in the biological field, since the famous "monkey trial" so long ago. Because of their subvertive efforts, the quality of American science education is absolutely pathetic, resulting in a large portion of the American population being scientifically illiterate, thus making them even more susceptible to creationist ignorance and lies. This then results in the American population not being all that interested in scientific research, particularly in funding it, and also reduces the number of scientists America could have.

Calzaer

From the AIG Statment of Faith:
" By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the Scriptural record."

THAT'S how Christianity hinders science. Keep in mind that these people teach their kids this crap.

Radorth

Premise:

Radorth "slams" other Christians on basic doctrines.

Conclusion:

"Christianity" hinders intellectual accomplishment.


Well I must admit, I never put the two together.

My, my, my. Aren't we grasping.

It's quite amazing what the few remaining persecuted and poorly educated ones managed to do, like discover the calculus, give us cheap electric power, wipe out polio and small pox, invent the atomic bomb, and win Nobel prizes one after the other- all while they were being "assaulted by crucifixes."

At least somebody made an intelligent comparison of the threats posed by different endeavours. That applies better four centuries ago, though.

Rad

SecularFuture

Any philosophy that promotes the use of magical thinking over the use of critical thinking is a hindrance to scientific and intellectual accomplishment.

:boohoo:

Daggah

And yet, Radorth, you did not ask, "does Christianity make scientific discovery impossible?" You asked, "does it hinder science?" And the answer is clearly yes, it does, as I have just shown. Your red herrings aren't convincing.

Radorth

For the record, Rad never once believed in a literal seven day creation, and has always given Darwin credit for what he did prove- namely evolution within species. And I have never believed the universal flood story either. Call me a heretic.

Augustine postulated evolution from created "packets" as I understand him, which I think correspond to "kinds" but that is only one theory in a hundred other unproven and ever-changing ones. I don't consider Genesis anything but an allegorical revelation. I think that is the case for most Christians I know, and it seems so for Augustine as well. Thus the "scriptural record" is not contradicted unless skeptics presume to define it for all of us. The fact that some Christians refuse to believe what is proven so, like the age of the earth, is completely irrelevant here.

It's a marvel what has been scientifically proven, which the NT DOES NOT contradict, and I think that is one reason some great scientists were and are quite comfortable being Christians. (Check out the doctrines and declarations of J. Smith if you want to find some truly hilarious contradictions with science, known history and archaeology).

The skeptics here are entirely dependent on past gaffs by Christians, but have failed entirely to disprove Jefferson's 200 year old statement that Christianity is

"...friendliest to liberty, science, and the freest expansion of the human mind."

And they have yet to show why Jefferson's choice of three Christians as "the three greatest men" in history was a bad one, or to show why Jefferson should not have hoped Jesus' "nascent" teachings would spread throughout the earth from America.

Better luck next time.

Rad

BioBeing

The question I thought was not is Radorth's christianity a hinderance to science or intellectual accomplishment, but is christianity in general a hinderance.

And since you mention Darwin, in my readings of his life story, he started out Christian: he was about to attend seminary, but went on the Beagle as a "Gentleman friend" to the very religious captain before starting his studies. He delayed publication of his work On the Origin of Species for decades fearing a public (i.e. Christian) outcry, and even when published, omitted his views on man's common descent, again for fear of outrage.

So the question here is did Christianity hinder science? If my understanding of Darwin's life is in any way correct, then yes - by delaying publication of his work by *even one day* from fear of religious persecution, then christianity hindered science.

livius drusus

Radorth -

Your cropping of Jefferson's quote removes a key caveat at the beginning of the sentence:

Since the clergy have in fact enveloped xianity in "rags" and just about every denomination (with the possible exception of the Quakers) is now far removed from the "purity and simplicity of its benevolent insitutor," Jefferson's conclusion does not apply.