Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Rusting Car Bumper · 08-07-2003, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BlessNot

There are many reasons why one would choose to be an atheist or theist but I'll post only one for each for now.

I can no more choose not to be an atheist than I can choose to believe I have 6 fingers on one hand. It's not something I choose.

Quote:

Some atheists believe that religion is harmful because it teaches absolutes about what it means to be human.

and some atheists are religious. and some theists are not religious.

Quote:

Why believe in god?

You tell me. There seems to be a complete lack of evidence to justify that belief.

Quote:

God has a special plan for our lives in the afterlife so we will not disappear into oblivion. After all, it would be infair since we are such wonderful beings created in His image and we are very important to Him.

Frankly, if I get to heaven and there isn't a protest march regarding all the people unfairly sent to hell then I don't want to be there.

DC

BlessNot · 08-07-2003, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JP2
Atheism is the default perspective. We're all born atheists and unless we're presented with some reason not to be an atheist (doesn't need to be a good one, mind) we will all stay atheists.

There are no reasons to be an athiest, only reasons not to be a theist.

JP2, I agree, we were all born atheists until we reached an age of being able to understand reason until someone taught us about God and religion, theism etc. However, theist's and Christians alike have their reasons for believing in God. I know because I was a fundamentalist Christian for many years until some time ago I deconverted from those beliefs to return to that default belief you have described.

And I must say it is quite liberating to say the least. I can now live my life free from the chains of that religious belief system.

Keith Russell · 08-07-2003, 12:10 PM

Greetings:

I am atheist because I neither been presented with, nor observed, which I can consider to be rational, independently verifiable, non-contradictory evidence for the existence not only of 'God', but of any and all mystical/supernatural claims.

K

JerryM · 08-07-2003, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith Russell
Greetings:

I am atheist because I neither been presented with, nor observed, which I can consider to be rational, independently verifiable, non-contradictory evidence for the existence not only of 'God', but of any and all mystical/supernatural claims.

K

I agree fully with Keith. In fact, I would say that philosophically, I am firstly a naturalist. In my opinion, the most reliably documented evidence of how the universe works excludes any kind of supernatural phenomena. So atheism for me is just a corollary position. It's a logical conclusion that results from naturalism.

Aravnah Ornan · 08-07-2003, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BlessNot
Why believe in god?

God has a special plan for our lives in the afterlife so we will not disappear into oblivion. After all, it would be infair since we are such wonderful beings created in His image and we are very important to Him.

Did you happen to notice that your reason to believe in G-d presupposes a belief in G-d?

BlessNot · 08-07-2003, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aravnah Ornan
Did you happen to notice that your reason to believe in G-d presupposes a belief in G-d?

It's not what I believe anymore and yes, I guess what I really meant to say was:

God has a special plan for our lives and the promise of the afterlife so we will not disappear into oblivion.

mosaic · 08-07-2003, 04:35 PM

What is this special purpose? What are we going to do with it? Flaunt it for eternity? Are we going to reminscne about earth or something? See the underlying ethereal significance of things like Nanking and the inqusitions? Is there some supra-purpose above our special one that justifies it? o

Jobar · 08-07-2003, 07:58 PM

BlessNot (good name BTW) I think this should be in the General Religious Discussions forum.

Another good reason not to believe in God- the concept itself is incoherent. That's why there are so many different gods, and religions, and denominations; that's why holy wars. It's my contention that no two theists believe in exactly the same God; my interactions with believers in this forum constantly prove this.

Rational BAC · 08-07-2003, 08:16 PM

No two believers do believe exactly the same thing.

The only thing they have in common is not closing their minds to the supernatural. -----------things that go bump in the night. -----things that make us wonder the purpose of life-----things that make us dwell on the reason for our existence--or the reason for any existence at all. To believe at least in the possibility that there is an existence beyond our meager senses and beyond our meager intelligence. To ponder the beginnings and ends of time. To ponder eternity. To ponder time and timelessness. To ponder the immaterial and the irreal.

It may all be an illusion of course. ---- Maybe the world in reality is just nuts and bolts and all very rational in every way.

But what a wonderful illusion!!! Do dogs and cats and lions and tigers and bears ponder such things? I doubt it. But we humans do. Can't be helped. Part of our nature. Always has been. In all times and cultures.

BlessNot · 08-08-2003, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mosaic
What is this special purpose? What are we going to do with it? Flaunt it for eternity? Are we going to reminscne about earth or something? See the underlying ethereal significance of things like Nanking and the inqusitions? Is there some supra-purpose above our special one that justifies it? o

Hi Mo, I hope you don't mind me calling you Mo ?

Well, I can relate to the special purpose proposition since I am a former believer. I had myself convinced that god had a great plan for my life in a spiritual sence on earth through his son Christ.
I had myself convinced that Jesus really changed my life but as time progressed in my so-called "walk with the Lord" I came to my sences many years later that it was all an illusion. The hope of the afterlife was all part of that plan but that theory to has it's contradictions and inconsistancies as well. Have you been a believer before ?

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08-07-2003, 12:10 PM	#13
Keith Russell Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Overland Park, Kansas Posts: 1,336	Greetings: I am atheist because I neither been presented with, nor observed, which I can consider to be rational, independently verifiable, non-contradictory evidence for the existence not only of 'God', but of any and all mystical/supernatural claims. K

08-07-2003, 04:35 PM	#17
mosaic Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: anchorage Posts: 321	What is this special purpose? What are we going to do with it? Flaunt it for eternity? Are we going to reminscne about earth or something? See the underlying ethereal significance of things like Nanking and the inqusitions? Is there some supra-purpose above our special one that justifies it? o

08-07-2003, 07:58 PM	#18
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	BlessNot (good name BTW) I think this should be in the General Religious Discussions forum. Another good reason not to believe in God- the concept itself is incoherent. That's why there are so many different gods, and religions, and denominations; that's why holy wars. It's my contention that no two theists believe in exactly the same God; my interactions with believers in this forum constantly prove this.

08-07-2003, 08:16 PM	#19
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	No two believers do believe exactly the same thing. The only thing they have in common is not closing their minds to the supernatural. -----------things that go bump in the night. -----things that make us wonder the purpose of life-----things that make us dwell on the reason for our existence--or the reason for any existence at all. To believe at least in the possibility that there is an existence beyond our meager senses and beyond our meager intelligence. To ponder the beginnings and ends of time. To ponder eternity. To ponder time and timelessness. To ponder the immaterial and the irreal. It may all be an illusion of course. ---- Maybe the world in reality is just nuts and bolts and all very rational in every way. But what a wonderful illusion!!! Do dogs and cats and lions and tigers and bears ponder such things? I doubt it. But we humans do. Can't be helped. Part of our nature. Always has been. In all times and cultures.

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