meritocrat

This may seem an unpopular view, but I see nothing wrong in bullying per se. Of course people's rights are infringed, nonetheless doesn't everybody get teased in some regard within the context of a school?

Viti

Now you are backpedaling...you said " I've heard some psychological research what states that bullies possess high self-esteem and harass others in order to maintain that level of self-esteem." So either post some citations to this research or retract and tell us the truth...this is simply your opinion.

And your view is more than unpopular...it is unequivocally refuted by the actual psychological research available which demonstrates repeatedly that bullying is harmful to the bully, the victim, and society in general.

You are allowed your opinion of course, but do not try to justify it with vague references to nonexistant research. If you want to be taken seriously around here you better be able to back up your claims. I challenge you one last time...back up this claim or retract it.

RevDahlia

There's a HUGE difference between "teasing" and bullying. Everybody gets teased at one point or another. The difference is the intent. Teasing is a component of social banter. Bullies' purpose is to injure, terrify, or cut low their victims. If one is teased, one can always tease back; bullying allows no such recourse as it is usually reinforced by a threat of physical violence or the destruction of the victim's reputation.

teasing: "Damn, man, did your mom pick that shirt out for you? Eesh!"
bullying: "Only fags dress like that. We're going to beat the crap out of you after school, fag."

Even if the threat is never carried out, the intent is the same -- to inspire fear and shame in the victim. That ain't right. And it usually doesn't do any good for anybody.

souperman

At least at my high school, responding to bullying - i.e., if they hit first, and I hit back - falls under the No Tolerance rule. We'd both be suspended/fined by the police, no matter what happens. Is that fair? No, and thus the bullies know that nothing can be done about it unless we "tell" a teacher/administrator, and then the bullying would only get worse because you would be perceived as a "tattletale" or a "snitch."

Has this bullying happened to me? No, not in my high school career. But it did happen during my junior high years, and the same policy was in effect. I couldn't do anything about it. And the sad thing is, the bullies know this.

Bullying is unethical, but as long as people encourage it, it will happen.

Walross

How many times do we have to point out to you that bullying is not merely teasing. It is a pattern of denigration, humiliation, and threats, often with a component of physical assault. You even touch on the bottom line in your last post: people's rights are infringed upon. How can you defend the violation of another person's rights?

BTW, where are those links that show that being a bully is good for a person?

Walross

Majestyk

Wrong. You have a "zero tolerance" rule and it still happens.

Humans are animals and some things about our nature are intrinsic. Declaring those aspects of are nature, that we would prefer didn't exist, as morally wrong, evil, or disgusting does not negate their reality. What it does do is leave those that did not learn how to properly deal with them in their youth, unprepared to deal with them in their adulthood.

Let’s make sure of what we are talking about here:

So, bullying is essentially the establishment of dominance by the installation of fear. By completely ignoring the fact that bullying and being bullied is a part of childhood, we do not allow children to learn:

The bullied learns that courage, resolution, and tenacity will stop the bullying. They learn that fear is an unproductive and oft unwarranted reaction. A lesson that will serve them well for, the rest of their lives.

The bully learns that intimidation is not a reliable method of establishing dominance. In fact, it can produce the opposite result when, confronted by an individual that displays courage in the face of their bullying.

These lessons must come under the supervision of adults. There’s a reason that we don’t allow children the same rights and privileges as adults. Children left to their own means can be very cruel to those weaker than they are.

Of course this is the problem that comes from parent’s abdicating their role as teacher and relying on the public school system to warehouse their children. Or should I point out some recent examples of how well our school systems are instilling these concepts in our youth?

Viti

I think the 0 tolerance policy is counterproductive. Rather than equally punish both children, the whole of the situation must be evaluated and the aggressor dealt with. Bullies need to be taught better ways to deal with their anger and control issues, and victims need to learn coping skills and ways to lessen the "vicitm" signals they often send out.

Loren Pechtel

When it's unsafe to be out of the teacher's sight during recess (for the entire 4 years), that's not fair.

When you're beat to semiconciousness and left in a field, that's not fair.

When neither the police nor the school won't do anything about the ringleader of the above attack, despite a long history of violence on his part, that's not fair.

Loren Pechtel

If they tried that on a kid of mine (not that they have any) they would be facing a lawsuit. Self-defense is legal.

At least it wasn't like that when I was in school. Reporting assaults (even to the police--yeah, we know about that guy. Stay away from him.) did nothing. One time I got lucky when jumped 5' from the school building and ended up giving the guy a bloody nose. (He didn't expect me to deflect his charge--I ran him into a brick wall.) The principal took one look at us, said he had seen the other guys many times for fighting, he had never seen me before. He sent me on my way, the other guys were sent to detention. Of course that lead to the beating mentioned earlier.

Loren Pechtel

The victim signals are not having enough friends to match their group. There's nothing legal you can do.