Freethought & Rationalism Archive

HelenM · 07-09-2002, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by St. Robert:
 Jesus can, however, release you from being controlled by depression.

Can?

But does he?

love
Helen

Panta Pei · 07-09-2002, 03:37 AM

"Being a Christian does not cure a person from clinical depression. However, I do believe that Jesus is the 'Great Physician'. It is Jesus, who heals and comforts. Allowing Jesus to reside in you through the power of His Holy Spirit can deliver a person from the bondage of clinical depression. Does this mean we'll never experience depression as an emotion? Of course, not. Jesus can, however, release you from being controlled by depression. Emotions change. Jesus does not. "

Thanks for your assertions and classic theistic double-speak St. Robert , however, if allowing a christianic possession will not release one from experiencing depression, even as an emotion, then it is still ineffectual.

Depression does not need to 'control' you to cause severe suffering.

Emotions change with real human compassion and active care.

Fairy tales that 'do not change' only provide temporary and empty escapist fantasy.

IMHO

"Can

But does he?"

Only if you scrunch your eyes together real hard and wish...wish...wish...

Or you can seek honest medical advice.

Right, Helen?

HelenM · 07-09-2002, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Panta Pei:
Or you can seek honest medical advice.

Right, Helen?

Actually, I'm disappointed in the medical advice but, yes, one can seek honest medical advice...one might find a bunch of prejudices and opinions with a little bit of genuine knowledge and understanding in there somewhere...

But at least it's not as shaming and blaming as Christians who say "If you had more faith/stopped sinning you wouldn't be depressed." Sometimes they go on to point out you're just too self-centered and if you'd go out and serve in some ministry, which would get your mind off you for a change, all your problems would go away...*sigh*

Or you can do the mystical exorcism stuff, I suppose...

But, yeah, you can also go to the doctors who are arrogant and rarely admit to how little they know and how important it is to them not to get sued.

You really have to fend for yourself in this world...I mean, as opposed to trusting other humans who all have their own agendas...

But I think you know that, Steve, don't you?

(Yep, this must be a cynical morning for me!

)

love
Helen

Panta Pei · 07-09-2002, 04:05 AM

It's exactly that "little bit of genuine knowledge and understanding in there somewhere..." that makes all the difference.

Absolutely nothing wrong with a little morning cynicism. It makes that first cup of coffee that much better.

Anunnaki · 07-09-2002, 04:13 AM

Quote:

You really have to fend for yourself in this world...I mean, as opposed to trusting other humans who all have their own agendas...

You forgot to include invisible gods in that short list of things you can`t rely on.

If Jesus could really cure depression,I`d be asleep right now.
It``s 8:00 AM and I`m STILL up. As an added bunus,my depression causes me to stay up all night for about a whole week every other month or so. I`m going on 4 days of lying in my bed awake at least until 5:00 AM every morning and waking up around 10 or 11 AM to do it all over again.
So to kill the time I drag my keyboard and cordless mouse to my bed and go online which causes my overtired eyes to burn even more. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

HelenM · 07-09-2002, 04:34 AM

Originally posted by Anunnaki:

You forgot to include invisible gods in that short list of things you can`t rely on.

I didn't want to comment on that

I was thinking, though, do NOT rely on what other people tell you about invisible gods...

You're better off with your own invisible god ideas, often...but, well, how can I put it? It is unwise to ignore what everyone else says; but if you rely on what they say too much you could get really hurt by their agendas...and people who purport to tell you about gods or God have agendas too...

If Jesus could really cure depression,I`d be asleep right now.
It``s 8:00 AM and I`m STILL up. As an added bunus,my depression causes me to stay up all night for about a whole week every other month or so. I`m going on 4 days of lying in my bed awake at least until 5:00 AM every morning and waking up around 10 or 11 AM to do it all over again.
So to kill the time I drag my keyboard and cordless mouse to my bed and go online which causes my overtired eyes to burn even more. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

My psychiatrist gave me a booklet about sleep that said to go to bed later...and I'm wondering, why not go to bed at 5 a.m. if that's when you go to sleep? Is that possible?

Anyway, my problem is waking up too early. I'm awake again when some people haven't gone to bed yet - and it's not because of time zones!

So that kind of book didn't help me but it helped my husband a lot, to stay up later, so he didn't lie awake for a couple of hours...(not as many as you, I know...)

Anyway, I'm sure it's the pits

I believe that working on managing one's lifestyle and relationships and ways of thinking might help a lot with depression. One's beliefs or lack thereof, about Jesus, obviously are not unrelated to such things. But generally people who say "Jesus will fix you!" don't have much clue about what they are talking about...plus it's insensitive and shaming.

love
Helen

[ July 09, 2002: Message edited by: HelenSL ]

TooBad · 07-09-2002, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HelenSL:
wresting thread back from some far off place it has gotten to...

Mea culpa. Sorry.

ManM · 07-09-2002, 04:43 AM

HelenSL,
Might I suggest <a href="http://www.pelagia.org/htm/b02.en.orthodox_psychotherapy.01.htm" target="_blank">this lengthy read</a>?

HelenM · 07-09-2002, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TooBad:


Mea culpa. Sorry.

That's ok...I wasn't seriously upset about it. I have gotten lots of threads off-topic myself. I actually prefer it when there's a bit of freedom to do that. The originator of the thread is always free to bring it back, right?

But I am trying to be more respectful than I once was, about keeping on-topic. A little more, anyway

At any rate, it was thoughtful of you to apologize - thanks

love
Helen

HelenM · 07-09-2002, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ManM:
HelenSL,
Might I suggest <a href="http://www.pelagia.org/htm/b02.en.orthodox_psychotherapy.01.htm" target="_blank">this lengthy read</a>?

Uh, sure you may!

Couldn't you just summarize the key points for me, though?

After all, I expect you wouldn't recommend it unless you've read it, so, what's the bottom line of it?

love
Helen

07-09-2002, 04:34 AM	#66
HelenM Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ill Posts: 6,577	Originally posted by Anunnaki: You forgot to include invisible gods in that short list of things you can`t rely on. I didn't want to comment on that I was thinking, though, do NOT rely on what other people tell you about invisible gods... You're better off with your own invisible god ideas, often...but, well, how can I put it? It is unwise to ignore what everyone else says; but if you rely on what they say too much you could get really hurt by their agendas...and people who purport to tell you about gods or God have agendas too... If Jesus could really cure depression,I`d be asleep right now. It``s 8:00 AM and I`m STILL up. As an added bunus,my depression causes me to stay up all night for about a whole week every other month or so. I`m going on 4 days of lying in my bed awake at least until 5:00 AM every morning and waking up around 10 or 11 AM to do it all over again. So to kill the time I drag my keyboard and cordless mouse to my bed and go online which causes my overtired eyes to burn even more. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> My psychiatrist gave me a booklet about sleep that said to go to bed later...and I'm wondering, why not go to bed at 5 a.m. if that's when you go to sleep? Is that possible? Anyway, my problem is waking up too early. I'm awake again when some people haven't gone to bed yet - and it's not because of time zones! So that kind of book didn't help me but it helped my husband a lot, to stay up later, so he didn't lie awake for a couple of hours...(not as many as you, I know...) Anyway, I'm sure it's the pits I believe that working on managing one's lifestyle and relationships and ways of thinking might help a lot with depression. One's beliefs or lack thereof, about Jesus, obviously are not unrelated to such things. But generally people who say "Jesus will fix you!" don't have much clue about what they are talking about...plus it's insensitive and shaming. love Helen [ July 09, 2002: Message edited by: HelenSL ]</p>

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

07-09-2002, 03:37 AM	#62
Panta Pei Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: in the middle of things Posts: 722	"Being a Christian does not cure a person from clinical depression. However, I do believe that Jesus is the 'Great Physician'. It is Jesus, who heals and comforts. Allowing Jesus to reside in you through the power of His Holy Spirit can deliver a person from the bondage of clinical depression. Does this mean we'll never experience depression as an emotion? Of course, not. Jesus can, however, release you from being controlled by depression. Emotions change. Jesus does not. " Thanks for your assertions and classic theistic double-speak St. Robert , however, if allowing a christianic possession will not release one from experiencing depression, even as an emotion, then it is still ineffectual. Depression does not need to 'control' you to cause severe suffering. Emotions change with real human compassion and active care. Fairy tales that 'do not change' only provide temporary and empty escapist fantasy. IMHO "Can But does he?" Only if you scrunch your eyes together real hard and wish...wish...wish... Or you can seek honest medical advice. Right, Helen?

07-09-2002, 04:05 AM	#64
Panta Pei Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: in the middle of things Posts: 722	It's exactly that "little bit of genuine knowledge and understanding in there somewhere..." that makes all the difference. Absolutely nothing wrong with a little morning cynicism. It makes that first cup of coffee that much better.

07-09-2002, 04:43 AM	#68
ManM Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: NW Florida, USA Posts: 1,279	HelenSL, Might I suggest <a href="http://www.pelagia.org/htm/b02.en.orthodox_psychotherapy.01.htm" target="_blank">this lengthy read</a>?

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.