Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Hedwig · 05-27-2003, 07:31 PM

:boohoo:

Aradia · 05-27-2003, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mark9950
Here thay are

Is a person saved by grace or are works also required? Paul and James seem to disagree on this.

James: (James 2:24 NRSV) You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Paul: (Gal 2:16 NRSV) yet we know that a person is justified not by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ.

James: (James 2:17 NRSV) So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.

Paul: (Titus 3:5 NRSV) he saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, ...

James: (James 2:20 NRSV) Do you want to be shown, you senseless person, that faith apart from works is barren?

Paul: (Rom 3:28 NRSV) For we hold that a person is justified by faith apart from works prescribed by the law.

James: (James 2:14 NRSV) What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you?

Paul: (Rom 4:5 NRSV) But to one who without works trusts him who justifies the ungodly, such faith is reckoned as righteousness.

Ok give me your God inspired interpretation of these verses.

Here's my god-inspired interpretation of the verses:

Paul was a schmuck. He took a perfectly nice religion, shook it with 3 parts vodka and 1 part vermouth, and spit it out upon an unsuspecting world.

Of course, I doubt many christians want to accept that, but hey -- you asked, and I answered.

Mageth · 05-27-2003, 08:46 PM

I know the deeper meaning of the Bible...

OK, I give up...what is this "deeper meaning"?

Rushianbeing · 05-28-2003, 06:10 AM

"Rushianbeing, iv'e been to SAB - its the dumbest, worst argument against the Bible i have ever seen on the web. Many atheists even in this board, say SAB is full of misinterpretations. Come to me with something credible before i bother with the crap from that board."

AH, just as I suspected, Magus 55, your answer is to refuse to answer.

Well, you've convinced me!!

Come to you with something credible? I quoted directly from the book you so revere-are you questioning its crediblity? Every single one of these verses appear, word for word, just as I posted them, in your Bible. This is not a "misinterpretation" by SAB...I have two bibles at home and looked at all these verses for myself, and yep, they're there, in both of them, word for word.

You cannot "misinterpret" 40 days or 150 days. It's either, or. You cannot "misinterpret" Mary, Mary Magdalene, or Cephas. It's one or the other.

Conclusion: your earlier statement that there are no contradictions in the bible is undeniably false.

But if you can deal with that, then that's no problem for me. Just don't make yourself look silly with angry, false statements in defense of your sacred tome. My opinion has always been, if your faith is so strong, then why all the anger at us little old thinkers?

Peace to ya!

Rational BAC · 05-28-2003, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mark9950
Here thay are

Is a person saved by grace or are works also required? Paul and James seem to disagree on this.

James: (James 2:24 NRSV) You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Paul: (Gal 2:16 NRSV) yet we know that a person is justified not by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ.

James: (James 2:17 NRSV) So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.

Paul: (Titus 3:5 NRSV) he saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, ...

James: (James 2:20 NRSV) Do you want to be shown, you senseless person, that faith apart from works is barren?

Paul: (Rom 3:28 NRSV) For we hold that a person is justified by faith apart from works prescribed by the law.

James: (James 2:14 NRSV) What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you?

Paul: (Rom 4:5 NRSV) But to one who without works trusts him who justifies the ungodly, such faith is reckoned as righteousness.

Ok give me your God inspired interpretation of these verses.

Well, from all those differing quotes in the Bible referring to grace by faith and grace by works. I would say that the general concensus is-----------Take a you picka-------

Seems like one or the other or a little of each will all work very well.

Aint God wonnerful? We Christians got it made any old which way as far as grace is concerned.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

PS---------I have this strange feeling that Magus is going to say----------------- "What you mean WE, white man?"

Radcliffe Emerson · 05-28-2003, 11:14 AM

Taking 2.5 years to read the bible from cover to cover, in order, is precisely what convinced me it is all bull.
Ceasing to listen to the morons who preached specific bits of at me in stupid churches, and reading for myself the idiocies it contained made me wonder how anyone can be stupid enough to believe any of it.

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05-27-2003, 07:31 PM	#31
Hedwig Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 3,921	:boohoo:

05-27-2003, 08:46 PM	#33
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	I know the deeper meaning of the Bible... OK, I give up...what is this "deeper meaning"?

05-28-2003, 06:10 AM	#34
Rushianbeing Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: the holler, y'all Posts: 243	"Rushianbeing, iv'e been to SAB - its the dumbest, worst argument against the Bible i have ever seen on the web. Many atheists even in this board, say SAB is full of misinterpretations. Come to me with something credible before i bother with the crap from that board." AH, just as I suspected, Magus 55, your answer is to refuse to answer. Well, you've convinced me!! Come to you with something credible? I quoted directly from the book you so revere-are you questioning its crediblity? Every single one of these verses appear, word for word, just as I posted them, in your Bible. This is not a "misinterpretation" by SAB...I have two bibles at home and looked at all these verses for myself, and yep, they're there, in both of them, word for word. You cannot "misinterpret" 40 days or 150 days. It's either, or. You cannot "misinterpret" Mary, Mary Magdalene, or Cephas. It's one or the other. Conclusion: your earlier statement that there are no contradictions in the bible is undeniably false. But if you can deal with that, then that's no problem for me. Just don't make yourself look silly with angry, false statements in defense of your sacred tome. My opinion has always been, if your faith is so strong, then why all the anger at us little old thinkers? Peace to ya!

05-28-2003, 11:14 AM	#36
Radcliffe Emerson Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: the dark side of Mars Posts: 1,309	Taking 2.5 years to read the bible from cover to cover, in order, is precisely what convinced me it is all bull. Ceasing to listen to the morons who preached specific bits of at me in stupid churches, and reading for myself the idiocies it contained made me wonder how anyone can be stupid enough to believe any of it.

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