Starboy

Mageth, as an atheist I see the major purpose of religion as being a guide to people on how to live life well. Why just pick on the bible? Why restricting yourself to it alone? By doing so you are assuming that everything worth knowing about living life can only be found there. That it has all been said and there are no improvements in understanding the human condition. The platinum rule is an excellent example of how new knowledge is being gained daily. We learn about ourselves from our genome, our natural history and our animal behavior. There is nothing in the bible worth knowing that can’t be found elsewhere, better explained, better suited to our times and in many cases just plain better at helping us understand ourselves. If we seek to do better than the past than we must do things differently. Let’s take our new acquaintance Rational BAC. He pretends to be liberal and tolerant yet as liberal as he thinks he is he is conservative because as far as I can tell he still clings to the bible as his sole source of guidance. This is not a helpful attitude for our times. Sure there are a very, very small minority that are tolerant enough to look beyond the bounds of Christianity and to accept people as they are but so what. It is not the tolerant Christians that concern me. I don’t know where you live, but in the country where I live we have a president that praises the lord every other sentence and then says he wants a secular government in Iraq. The aggressive, intolerant, thoughtless and annoying Christians have way too much say. How could this happen with so many thoughtful, tolerant, peaceful and friendly Christians that are supposed to be good Americans?

Starboy

BioBeing

Mike - I like the way you put this. It sums up a lot of the problems I have with this also, and echos some points I'm trying to make on another forum (but you put it better ). Thanks.

mike_decock

I appreciate the compliment, Bio. I'm trying to improve my writing skills and any positive feedback is very encouraging.

You're welcome. This forum is always helping me to find better ways to express a point and challenging me to think a little deeper. I just wish I had found it years ago .

-Mike...

Rational BAC

Back again --Computer working very well today --do not know why. Had to work tonight and so it is rather late.

Starboy------Not sure if it was Starboy or not--I am getting tired and it IS getting late


Anyway someone asked what rational reason I had to believe that the Holy Ghost was guiding me in my cherry picking.---

I have to admit that I cannot come up with any rational reason for that one. I consider myself a Rational Born Again Christian---but I have to admit that I cannot justify that part of it at all rationally. It is a belief. A part of my faith if you will.

Non-theists could never understand that part----nor would I expect them to. Will have to agree to disagree on that point.

In any event I would say that allowing that part of it to be irrational leaves me still about 98% as a Rational Born Again Christian. ---------Good enough for me. I am sure, however, that it will not be good enough for many non-theists.

Again --will just have to agree to disagree on that point.

There were some other very good questions. Will check back later and try to answer as best I can ------------them.

Rational BAC

OK

Responding to another question.

Do I completely restrict myself to the Bible for wisdom?

Of course not.--------Why should I ? --------Surprises me sometimes why non-theists seem to think I am a Bible belt, Bible thumping, the word is the word, Fundie Christian.

For the umpteenth zillionth time I AM NOT. !!!!!!!!!!

Of course I consider other religions and other philosophies to be legitimate. And I add them onto my Christian belief. I think that Jesus would want it that way.----------if I find peace within myself by doing that. And if I find truth that way.

Some people think that Christianity ended 2000 years ago.

I think it continues and is added on to forever.

And that is what Jesus would have wanted.

Or so I believe.-----------

Starboy

So Rational BAC, could an atheist be a Christian and remain an atheist?

Rational BAC

Lost me there Starboy------

Explain more fully.

Jinto

Could a person who rejects the parts of the bible that say God exists (i.e. is an atheist), but still cherry-picks from other parts of it, rightly call themselves a Christian?

Treacle Worshipper

Now I'm getting somewhere in my understanding of you, R'BAC. (Hope you don't mind the abbreviation.)

Originally posted by Rational BAC
Anyway someone asked what rational reason I had to believe that the Holy Ghost was guiding me in my cherry picking.---

Ok, just one more question. How & why did you come to the conclusion that it was the HG guiding you? (Rather than, say, the spirits of your ancestors or the god Mercury.)

I guess that was 2 questions in one - sorry.

I have to admit that I cannot come up with any rational reason for that one. I consider myself a Rational Born Again Christian---but I have to admit that I cannot justify that part of it at all rationally. It is a belief. A part of my faith if you will.

Non-theists could never understand that part----nor would I expect them to. Will have to agree to disagree on that point.

Fair enough.

TW

Stephen T-B

Jinto - it's not a question of whether they can; the fact is, they do.

I've been cogitating about something else.
I had thought all religionists cherry pick, but now I’m not so sure.
I think religionists fall into two broad categories, only one of which does.

Those who do not cherry pick are what I term the Believers: they believe what they read and are taught without thought; it lodges in a subconscious part of the brain where it becomes a kind of back filler, along the lines of the coarse material used by road builders which lies well below the surface but gives the road its ability to withstand the passing of very heavy trucks without breaking up.
Believers don’t examine it, see what it’s made of, throw out the lumps they don’t like: it just gets shovelled in and becomes part of the assumptions which lie behind the way they look at life and judge certain aspects of it.
These believers are to be found in most if not all religions, and predominate in parts of the world where poor education contributes to high levels of superstition and ignorance, such as much of Africa, South America, the Near and Far East and parts of Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the United States. They contribute strongly to the ranks of the fundamentalists.

The other category of religionists is actually distinguished by its cherry picking: “belief” for this group is transformed into certainty which derives from an intellectual activity in which the back filler is more or less carefully examined and sifted. That which survives becomes the basis of their certainties, which, for a whole variety of psychological / temperamental reasons, they absolutely require.

A mistake they make is to think that the cherry-picking is a rational process; the reason it isn’t is because their certainties about god and the other elements of their religion are an essential part of the strategy they develop for coping with a reality which is so relentlessly rational they just can’t stand it.