Jamie_L

The other side:

I have two children, age 2 yrs and 7 months. I think this puts me square in the "new parents" category being spoken of. A few things about being on the other side:

1) If you have kids, love them, and care for them properly, you end up devoting an enormous amount of time to them. The things that they do really are often the only noteworthy things that happen during your day. I know single people who go on endlessly about their jobs - because that is the noteworthy occurance during their days.

2) Speaking only for myself, my children are now the most important thing in my life. Everyone talks about what's important to them, even when it's not always important to other people. I find my kids fascinating, and like everyone else, I want to share the interesting things that happen during my day. My computer geek friends who drone on about their woes programming such-and-such can be just as boring and annoying.

This goes both ways. Many of my single friends annoy the pis out of me because they don't seem to give a rats ass about my kids. They want to act like I'm still exactly the same guy, and that the kids are just amusing things to make jokes about. They don't really respect the fact that, to me anyway, my kids are real people, with their own personalities, just as important as anyone else, and a big part of my life. As other people told us before we had kids: you will drift apart from most of your childless friends. It's true.

3) I don't try to pressure anyone into having kids. No one should have them unless they're absolutely ready - otherwise the result can be disaster. Anyone who tries to pressure someone is being disrespectful, and I would agree that it is very annoying.

Maybe its just a fact of life that people with kids and people without kids just don't understand each other and will always bug each other.

Jamie

ImGod

When I got married, the pressure to have "grand" children was enormous. We married in our mid-twenties so we were far behind in my parents eyes. They stopped pressuring us 4 years later after we miscarried the first baby. Every comment about the subject from people who didn't know us well or just hearing of other people having children would hurt. It was well over a year before the second (our first born) can along.

My brother and his wife our having problems getting pregnant and the pressure is building. They only told us because we have never bothered them about it based on our own experiences.

People suck when it comes to asking questions about children. I've learned the hard way that you sould keep your questions on reproduction to yourself. You never know who is having problems and is already depressed enough about it.

MassAtheist

I feel an uncontrollable need to chime in here. Disclaimer: I am a new parent with 4 month old twins.

1. I only share stories about my kids when people ask. If you don't want to hear about it, don't ask. If you don't ask, I'll assume you are not interested. I'm just as happy talking about work, religion, politics, woodworking, whatever...

2. Breastfeeding is such a personal choice that I have never understood why people are so adamant about it. There are people whose bodies cannot produce enough milk for the baby. My wife felt it was very important to breastfeed, so that's what we do.

3. You cannot understand what it is like to have kids unless you have them. Once you do, it's so easy to forget what it's like to not have them.

5. I was adamant about hand washing for the first month. This is primarily because our twins were born 5 week early and did not have fully developed immune systems. RSV is a very common virus and is potentially fatal to premature infants. At this point, I'm not so concerned.

6. I would never want to give up my children now that I have them. But I also believe that my wife and I could have had a very happy life without kids.


One more thing - I never wanted kids until about 3 years ago. I've always liked babies, but never wanted to raise a child. I don't know if it's an age thing or if it was seeing people around me having kids, but at some point my wife and I decided the time was right. If you never feel a strong desire to have kids, then don't. I believe you can live a happy and fulfilling life.

Comenius

Another Other Side:

I'm not in the "new parent" category (my 3 sons are ages 9, 8 and 4) but I think I have a few constructive things to say. I became a father at age 25 and this changed my life forever. I never realized that being a parent was something of such immense power. I am shaping the future through my children and I know that, in many ways, I will live on (through my legacy and what I've taught them) long after I am dead. My children should live well into the 2070s and 80s and my youngest just may see the year 2100. Amazing to think, isn't it?

I don't think that I am defined and somehow "completed" by having children. It's perfectly fine not to have children and to remain single - though I agree that there is much societal pressure to marry and have children.

Because having children is such a life-changing thing I ask you to have some grace for new parents. I think it's perfectly healthy for new parents to fawn and brag about their children. Don't you realize how many unwanted children there are in this world? Love is a precious commodity and should be applauded even when it irritates us ("Hey, did you know that Little Jimmy pooped in the potty for the first time yesterday!?"). Yes, yes, yes, new parents can be irritating but humor them!

One comment to the oft repeated line "you don't understand until you have kids" thing. It is true. It really changes your life and there's nothing you can do to prepare you for it. New parent can be, as I've said, irritating but I find that the most dogmatic and self-proclaimed experts on raising children are people who don't have kids! I was an expert on children who judged parents until I had kids of my own and I saw the folly of thinking I knew it all.

So, those of you who are the most irritated by new parents will probably one day find yourselves, as I did, in the ranks of the fawning new parents telling everyone you meet about Little Jimmy's bowel movements and sleeping habits. Mark my words!

Comenius
Happy father, reformed expert on child rearing

DRFseven

First of all, it's a good thing new parents take a huge interest in their children, or else none of us would be here to discuss it. As someone pointed out, people who are enthralled by something tend to talk about it. When that something happens to be their own child, physiology usually kicks in hard. I pity the children whose parents are not naturally child-focused, as well as the people who might have to live in a society peopled by such as that.

Secondly, people who haven't had children don't know what it's like. This is a simple fact realized every day by first-time parents.

Of course there are bores who don't understand social cues and never get the message that some of their family, friends, and acquaintances have heard way more than enough, but most parents just genuinely feel that their new offspring are so amazing that anyone else would certainly want to be informed of such tremendously important goings-on. And some of us do! I understand what is going on psychologically and physiologically, and I never get tired of seeing it. I'm very interested in listening to what the love-struck parents have to say about their children and watching the parent/child interaction, and a day that includes a baby-smile is a much better day than one that doesn't.

Yes, it's true I love children, but I don't wear blinders. I don't think that people who don't want children should have them and I think parents who urge their grown children to produce grandchildren when the children don't want children are wrong. I think it's fine and good for humankind that some people never have children and pursue other interests. But try to understand that it's a good thing that people who have young children have an overriding interest in them and that we probably wouldn't much like the alternative.

DRFseven

Very well said, Comenius, and just what I was talking about. Another very good point of yours:

Yes; how true it is! How many times I've heard people say, "I used to complain about the way parents go on about their children, and now I'm one of the worst!" Indulge them; statistically speaking, you are likely to become them!

alek0

"So, those of you who are the most irritated by new parents will probably one day find yourselves, as I did, in the ranks of the fawning new parents telling everyone you meet about Little Jimmy's bowel movements and sleeping habits. Mark my words!"

This is precisely what is annoying! *I* will NEVER find myself among the ranks of new parents.
1. I don't want children, never did and never will 2) I have endometriosis, so most likely would not be able to have them (lots of damage in there) if I wanted them.

I can tolerate such ridicilous comments from strangers, but when people who know me, especially people who know my endometriosis problems, start bugging me about having children, it makes my blood boil.

WWSD

<strong>"So, those of you who are the most irritated by new parents will probably one day find yourselves, as I did, in the ranks of the fawning new parents telling everyone you meet about Little Jimmy's bowel movements and sleeping habits. Mark my words!"
</strong>

I won't say never, because that is too broad a statement, but I can say that the probability is low.

I don't like kids. Don't get me wrong, I do not scowl at small children or anything. I am very nice to people's kids, I have been known to play with small children and am even teaching my 8yr old cousin how to play basketball. But I don't find kids cute, and feel a keen sense of disinterest in them. Kids are for someone else, not me.

What bothers me is when people decide that I am just 26 and will change my mind when my clock starts ticking. Do males have clocks?
I doubt it.

I was even confronted on this subject by a woman who has no kids but annoyingly continues to remind us that her clock is ticking.
She called me "genetically dead" and asked me why I was in grad school if I didn't want kids. What the hell does that have to do with it?

I concede that I cannot know what it's like to have kids. And, truthfully, I don't want to know.
I think I would not make a good father, despite what my mother and coworkers tell me.

As for stories, I hear all sorts of them. I try to seem interested but how many times can you hear that someone's child said something cute without losing interest completely. Maybe it is the highlight of thier day, but to expect me to think that it is fantastically cute is a bit much.

I also feel like I'm being disincluded from some groups simply because I'm not running around frantically trying to impregnate some female. I get the idea that society thinks I am only 1/2 a person without a mate and some rugrats. I'm just not worth the time if I haven't reproduced yet, or if I'm not at least trying.

echidna

Thanks for the responses.

It’s a difficult social change for a group of friends when it occurs. And the problems are often compounded by a lack of understanding on both sides. I shouldn’t have toned my opening posts quite so strongly. But I’d like to think that I’ve been exceedingly patient of several years now, & every now and again I just need to let off steam.

I am also quick to admit a degree of jealousy for all these little ankle-biters when suddenly buddies can’t take a weekend off to go skiing or hiking.

DRF7 (long time no see) yes it is a good thing when parents are devoted to their children. My own parents were probably quite single-minded when they brought us up. FWIW my own parental preaching extends as far as believing that parenting is the most difficult task in the world.

I think I most object to a perceived increase in judgementalism, and that not everyone shares the sudden change in lifestyle. Unfortunately the judgementalism is necessary to guide offspring down the straight and narrow, but I think it’s possible to be TOO judgemental. People’s own intolerance sometimes seems to be exaggerated when they become parents.

I see an enormous pressure to conform to the 50th percentile. The inevitable comparisons to the norm & I see several mothers suffering from guilt for not conforming in one way or another, their babies are too small, too big, not walking early enough, etc etc etc. My mother speaks of much criticism on her about the best ways to be a mother. People were forever telling her things she had to do, and things she could never do.

My own spectacularly-uninformed support to worried mothers is generally to ignore the peer group pressure. If you can’t breast-feed, then don’t fight it or feel guilty. Political Correctness 30 years ago was that it was BAD mothering to breast-feed & so babies were all on formula. But did we really turn out so bad ? As a multiple uncle, I see many ways of parenting, many many "best" ways. Which one’s really best ? Really, there isn’t one & whatever works for you, works. But this doesn’t seem to be popular thinking & parents will painstakingly explain why their’s is best and why each other’s is wrong. I understand that certainty is necessary, however the price we pay for such dogmatism is lower tolerance of others who choose to do things another way. Which seems quite inconsistent with pluralism.

Yes if I were a parent I would definitely have my own "best" way, but I would like to think that I would use the words "well I guess that works for them" a little more than I hear. (This is when the chorus rings that it’ll change if I become a parent.)

I suppose in a way it parallels the whole religious belief theme quite closely.

That the parents care, is generally the most important for me (obvious matters aside of course). My parents’ generation smoked, drank, played sport, and so forth & we generally ended up OK. When my mother was an intern in post-war London, almost all babies were home births by necessity. Blocks of flats had only a communal bathroom for running water, and yet their mortality rates were amazingly low. We shouldn’t forget that the anxiety brought by Political Correctness also comes with its own unquantifiable price.

JL, yep, I agree that endless workstories are (also ?) intolerably dull. I’m often chastised for not describing more of my work, but that’s because even I find it incredibly dull. I reserve my work stories almost exclusively for the gossipy and embellished personality and cross-cultural stories which I personally find highly amusing.

Ms. Siv

What was that reason ?!

- Sivakami.