Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ohwilleke · 08-29-2002, 11:10 AM

Home schooling isn't ipso facto neglect, but when home schooling or sectarian private schools can, in combination with a fervently fundamentalist family, leave a kid so ignorant of the way the real world works and so isolated from the larger world, that it can approach neglect.

These kids may be so deprived of science and culture that they have been stunted.

Public schools, in contrast, while rarely the epitome of excellence, are also rarely grievously deficient (although there are a handful of mostly inner city schools that are).

MadMordigan · 08-29-2002, 12:24 PM

These kids may be so deprived of science and culture that they have been stunted.

Thats right! Kids will learn that Columbus was the first European in North America, that the moon changes phases because of the shadow of the earth, or that a rainbow can be further refracted, and that is where we get all the other colours other than ROYGIBV.

Oh wait. Thats what they teach in public school.

Corwin · 08-29-2002, 12:27 PM

Ummm.... actually Leif Erickson was in what is now Canada about 300 years earlier.....

Vorkosigan · 08-29-2002, 01:35 PM

1) Homeschooling requires a stay at home parent, something which is economically difficult at best for anyone other than a highly paid professional. My husband and I managed to arrange it so he could stay home for about five years, but it was very hard financially.

2) I have observed that my daughter is more willing to learn something from a stranger than from her parents. It could be a problem with our relationship, but my husband, who volunteered in school, noticed the same thing with the other parents working in class.

Ditto. And let me add: my kids teacher is not a stranger.

Ab_Normal · 08-29-2002, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vorkosigan:
Ditto. And let me add: my kids teacher is not a stranger.[/QB]

Vorkosigan read my post! One moment while I collect myself...

I agree with "my kids teacher is not a stranger". My husband and I have formed very good relationships with all of our daughter's teachers so far. (Now, if you want to talk administration, that's another matter entirely...)

2tadpoles · 08-30-2002, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ab_Normal:
[QB]Without meaning to, Frogsmoocher pressed one my big red hot buttons.

1) Homeschooling requires a stay at home parent, something which is economically difficult at best for anyone other than a highly paid professional.

No, it doesn't. My husband is an E-5 in the Navy... hardly a highly paid professional. I work 4-5 nights per week waiting tables. There are even single parents who homeschool and manage to remain employed.

Quote:

My daughter is in a public school program which REQUIRES 90 hours of parental involvement during the school year. (The number of parents who blow this off is another rant entirely.) I don't just send my daughter off to school and leave it at that - I am involved in her education. I suppose we agree that education is not just what happens inside the schoolhouse walls.

My experience with schools is that, if a child does poorly, the parents are often blamed for not being "involved" enough. In fact, many teachers complain that parents aren't involved enough in general. If that's the case, then what is the purpose of school? It seems as though the parents are held accountable for their children's education, anyway. Might as well spend an extra six-hours a day with them, and avoid peer dependence and all the other garbage that goes along with school-life.

2tadpoles · 08-30-2002, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by frostymama:
[QB]I have my own issues with homeschooling. What happens when the kid has fundy parents (like mine) who refuse to teach their kids science or history if it doesn't line up with their religious beliefs?

What happens when certain public schools use a dildo and condoms to teach 5th graders about safe sex? It happened right here in my neighborhood.

Fundy kids are going to be taught those things regardless of whether they go to school or not. They will be taught that the things they learn in school are lies.

Quote:

Their poor kids end up learning that the Earth was created in 6 days, evolution teaches that grandpa was a monkey....

Funny, I know a lot of people who believe all this and were raised in public schools. Most fundy parents who are educating their kids at home went to public schools, themselves.

2tadpoles · 08-30-2002, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vorkosigan:
[QBAnd let me add: my kids teacher is not a stranger.[/QB]

Really? How long did you know your child's teacher before dropping your child off in the classroom on the first day of school? Most people meet them once or twice before school starts. IMO, that's still a stranger.

I would also like to add that my dad was a public school teacher for nearly thirty years. My best friend is an English teacher at a private school. Very few parents get to know their kids' teachers. Often, the only time a parent will contact a teacher is when the kid is in some sort of trouble. I get it straight from the horse's mouth.

Bill · 08-30-2002, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ohwilleke:
<strong>Do you just say good riddence? Or do you say, this is horrible, those kids need some opportunity to escape parental educational neglect? </strong>

I call it "Darwinian evolution in action."

== Bill

Ab_Normal · 08-30-2002, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Frogsmoocher:
<strong>No, it doesn't. My husband is an E-5 in the Navy... hardly a highly paid professional. I work 4-5 nights per week waiting tables. There are even single parents who homeschool and manage to remain employed. </strong>

You have my respect (I certainly couldn't manage that), and thank you for the additional data point! All the homeschoolers of my acquaintance have a stay at home parent.

I fully support the freedom to homeschool, as well the freedom to attend private schools. I also believe that as a society we should provide education to children whose parents cannot or will not pursue those options.

I guess I'm on the "reform from within" side, and you're on the "got the heck out" side. But we can agree that we are trying to act in the best interests of our children.

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08-29-2002, 11:10 AM	#21
ohwilleke Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Denver, Colorado, USA Posts: 4,834	Home schooling isn't ipso facto neglect, but when home schooling or sectarian private schools can, in combination with a fervently fundamentalist family, leave a kid so ignorant of the way the real world works and so isolated from the larger world, that it can approach neglect. These kids may be so deprived of science and culture that they have been stunted. Public schools, in contrast, while rarely the epitome of excellence, are also rarely grievously deficient (although there are a handful of mostly inner city schools that are).

08-29-2002, 12:24 PM	#22
MadMordigan Beloved Deceased Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 2,704	These kids may be so deprived of science and culture that they have been stunted. Thats right! Kids will learn that Columbus was the first European in North America, that the moon changes phases because of the shadow of the earth, or that a rainbow can be further refracted, and that is where we get all the other colours other than ROYGIBV. Oh wait. Thats what they teach in public school.

08-29-2002, 12:27 PM	#23
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	Ummm.... actually Leif Erickson was in what is now Canada about 300 years earlier.....

08-29-2002, 01:35 PM	#24
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	1) Homeschooling requires a stay at home parent, something which is economically difficult at best for anyone other than a highly paid professional. My husband and I managed to arrange it so he could stay home for about five years, but it was very hard financially. 2) I have observed that my daughter is more willing to learn something from a stranger than from her parents. It could be a problem with our relationship, but my husband, who volunteered in school, noticed the same thing with the other parents working in class. Ditto. And let me add: my kids teacher is not a stranger.

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