Freethought & Rationalism Archive

King Arthur · 07-09-2002, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rodahi:
Frankly, some of the JC Bible is stupid, whether Jesus is a historical person or not. The gullible are those who believe the outrageous claims made by biblical writers.

So you agree that Christ mythicism is stupid too?

rodahi · 07-09-2002, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by King Arthur:


So you agree that Christ mythicism is stupid too?

I tend to think that Jesus the Nazarene existed, but I don't think it stupid to question the historicity of the NT narratives, or their main character.

Vorkosigan · 07-10-2002, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by King Arthur:

Christ mythicism is ultimately blind to the facts and requires a person who has done some but not enough study, and is gullible enough to believe the outrageous claims of pseudo-scholars and maverick scholars. Frankly, Christ mythicism is stupid. Jesus, in all probability, existed whether some like it or not.

Great argument! I feel devastated.

Most of us "mythers" here are Jesus-agnostics. We feel that the NT and other Christian legends do not supply us with enough evidence to know for certain who Jesus was, or which of the composite characters the NT legends are based on is really the One.

For some reason, claiming the Jesus story is a myth -- like virtually all other ancient religious figures -- really pisses some people off. Why does it bother you so much?

Vorkosigan

CX · 07-10-2002, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vorkosigan:
For some reason, claiming the Jesus story is a myth -- like virtually all other ancient religious figures -- really pisses some people off. Why does it bother you so much?

It is one thing to claim the Jesus story is a myth. That is a reasonably tenable position. It is another thing entirely to postively assert that there is no human historical figure behind the Gospel Jesus. In my view there is insufficient evidence to make such a claim and it amounts to proving a negative. Ultimately I don't find the question very interesting since I consider it largely insoluable.
I guess that makes me a "true" HJ agnostic.

Radcliffe Emerson · 07-10-2002, 07:24 AM

I think the biblical Jesus legends are myths, specifically the virgin birth, raising people from the dead, and the physical resurrection.
I do however think Jesus the man existed, and was probably a charismatic person who gathered a large following and p*ssed off the Jewish leaders for taking folks out from their control.

Toto · 07-10-2002, 10:29 AM

As a matter of historical research, the idea that Jesus was only a myth cannot be proven. HJ agnsoticism is the only prudent position for a True Skeptic (tm) or a good academic.

But still, there is something liberating in the idea that there was no historical Jesus (See Intensity's thread on the subject.) After you have strained your brain trying to make sense of Christianity and early Christian history, the Jesus myth idea gives you that "aha" feeling.

Vinnie · 07-10-2002, 10:59 AM

Of course the question is, do we seek liberation or accuracy. Learning the earth is only 6,000 years old might give yecs that same "aha" feeling.

Vinnie

Toto · 07-10-2002, 11:07 AM

How does the idea that the earth is only 6,000 years old give an "aha" feeling? If it does, let them wallow in the feeling and keep it to themselves.

Of course, the aha has to be tested against the available evidence. In the case of the Jesus Myth, the evidence does not convincingly refute it (unlike the 6,000 year old earth.)

Tristan Scott · 07-10-2002, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Frankly, some of the JC Bible is stupid...

Probably written by poo-poo heads.

Vorkosigan · 07-10-2002, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ilgwamh:
Of course the question is, do we seek liberation or accuracy. Learning the earth is only 6,000 years old might give yecs that same "aha" feeling.

Vinnie

Look -- comparing the myth position to creationism again. Please bring on the methodology for getting truth out of the NT legends, or stop this nonsense, Vinnie.

Vorkosigan

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07-10-2002, 07:24 AM	#15
Radcliffe Emerson Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: the dark side of Mars Posts: 1,309	I think the biblical Jesus legends are myths, specifically the virgin birth, raising people from the dead, and the physical resurrection. I do however think Jesus the man existed, and was probably a charismatic person who gathered a large following and p*ssed off the Jewish leaders for taking folks out from their control.

07-10-2002, 10:29 AM	#16
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	As a matter of historical research, the idea that Jesus was only a myth cannot be proven. HJ agnsoticism is the only prudent position for a True Skeptic (tm) or a good academic. But still, there is something liberating in the idea that there was no historical Jesus (See Intensity's thread on the subject.) After you have strained your brain trying to make sense of Christianity and early Christian history, the Jesus myth idea gives you that "aha" feeling.

07-10-2002, 10:59 AM	#17
Vinnie Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Waterbury, Ct, Usa Posts: 6,523	Of course the question is, do we seek liberation or accuracy. Learning the earth is only 6,000 years old might give yecs that same "aha" feeling. Vinnie

07-10-2002, 11:07 AM	#18
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	How does the idea that the earth is only 6,000 years old give an "aha" feeling? If it does, let them wallow in the feeling and keep it to themselves. Of course, the aha has to be tested against the available evidence. In the case of the Jesus Myth, the evidence does not convincingly refute it (unlike the 6,000 year old earth.)

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