luvluv

yeah we all must be brainwashed. How else could we possibly disagree with you?

The Other Michael

Sorry - too much brainwashing in typing class in re capitalizing names.

t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t tronvillain,tronvillain, tronvillain

I may have it down now.

cheers,
Michael

mfaber

Notice the sneaky, deceitful trick that dk pulls here. He is associating sterilization with genocide. Why are you doing that, dk? Sterilization prevents conception, but then that is why the Catholic church and some fundamentalist Protestants and Moslems rail against the procedure. This lot thinks that ALL sex is dirty, even married sex. Remember that Catholic-run hospitals won't allow surgeons to perform sterilizations on any woman, unless a legion of doctors sign off on the fact that the woman's life is at risks (some won't even allow it then...God's will you know!!)

The only way to "atone" for doing the "nasty" is that if one must do the deed, the threat of pregnancy must always present (it would be hard to enjoy sex, if you knew there was a significant risk that one would become pregnant....what these sex-haters want). Pregnancy becomes a "sin tax" on sex. The only "birth control" allowed is one that is doomed to failure from the start (What do you call people who "practice" NFP---->PARENTS!) That is why masturbation is taboo: there is only pleasure here without risking the "sin tax" or disease (can't have that, must punish, punish, punish sexual pleasure). Of course (Catholics, fundies) won't call unwanted pregnancy a "sin tax", but put out the Orwellian Patriarchial Newspeak phraseology parroted by dk:

If people like dk were really concerned about abortion, they wouldn't try to hinder the dissemination of effective birth control or get so upset with masturbation, or sterilization. The bottom-line for them is that if "you're gonna play, you gotta pay". Why they also hate premarital sex, MOST ESPECIALLY when the people involved ARE responsible, do use birth control or sterilization to prevent pregnancy having to pay their "sin tax".

They have had to fall back on trying to scare people into submission by going on about disease ("sin tax 2"). Why else try to prevent the distribution of condoms and shut down effect sex-education. Many don't want to see money spent on research to prevent of cure STDs. They want people go get sick and die (see what happens to people who have sex outside of wedlock, you slut/degenerate sex fiend!).

Let's not forget how Reagan and Co. actually hindered progress on finding out what caused AIDS (by the time Reagan even said the word in public, 25,000 Americans had already died), by pretending the problem didn't really exists (doesn't affect grannies and virgins, why should we care?) and refusing to fund research. The Catholic Church, now in league with Religious Right groups like the Christian Coalition and fundamentalist Muslims, uses it's seat in the UN to undercut every move to promote the rights of women, children, stop birth control and sex education programs and the distribution of condoms to prevent the spread of HIV. What a lovely bunch! (NOT!)

<a href="http://www.prrm.org/publ_rrf_js94debate.htm" target="_blank">The Population Debate Heats Up</a>

<a href="http://www.detnews.com/2001/religion/0109/23/a29-293200.htm" target="_blank">Catholic church Opposing Condom Distribution in Africa that would Prevent the Spread of AIDS</a>

<a href="http://www.population-security.org/14-CH6.html" target="_blank">Machinations of the RCC In Opposing Birth Control</a>

Of course one can see why the RCC et al., hates birth control. It would cut down on a lot of suffering (people born to families that don't want them, too poor to afford to care for them). Suffering is a great marketing tool for selling their fraudulent "pie-in-the-sky" postmortem bribe of heaven (suffer now, play forever....when they can't terrify you into believing with the prospect of their Cosmic Don's Original Deal you can't refuse "Believe or BURN!!!). All this just to preserve the power of what of what is really one of the oldest, largest "Boy's ONLY" club in history (patriarchial religions of all strips, not just the RCC or fundie xtianity).

As of today this year,<a href="http://www.starvation.net" target="_blank"> ~26,000,000 people (one person every 2.43 seconds) will have died of starvation, 75% of them under the age of 5.</a>. This is one reason that I think abortion should be legal and that the "adoption" argument put forth by anti-choicers is a canard. More power to effective birth control, sterilization, masturbation, and sex ed as well!!! Too bad, if control-freaks can't "tax" premarital sex with the burden of unwanted pregnancy and disease. Hey sex-hating, control-freaks like dk and Co....suffer all you want, but try to force the rest of us to keep you company....

[ November 02, 2002: Message edited by: mfaber ]</p>

Harumi

I said eeeeewwwwww precisely because I don't have the maturity for it.

And not only that, I'm not even sure how to masturbate. What do you do, stick your finger up? My friend gave me a detailed description. I tried that, and felt nothing.

Must be something wrong with me...

Ted Hoffman

Post deleted by moderator for inappropriate content.

Intensity - let's have no more posts like that.

Michael
MF&P Moderator, First Class

[ November 04, 2002: Message edited by: The Other Michael ]</p>

brighid

Harumi,

Well ... I won't get into too many details here for the simple fact that WAY too many people might get overly excited about a woman counseling another on the finer points of masturbation. One word - clitoris - get familiar with it and find out what works for you ... your friends are ignorant about orgasm if they gave you THAT information ....

This is something better discussed in private!

Brighid

brighid

Dk,

I would say you are wrong about masturbation et al. It can be for those who are sexually frustrated, but that does not mean if one masturbates or employs the use of sex toys (either alone or with a partner) that one is sexually frustrated. I would also think it would be seen a preferable to actual sexual intercourse because it doesn’t transmit any diseases or cause pregnancy. Masturbation is a normal part of sexuality and a healthy outlet for both men and women. It’s unfortunate that so many women have been taught that girls don’t or shouldn’t.

Brighid

Ted Hoffman

The other Michael: Intensity - let's have no more posts like that.

Okay sir. I apologise - won't happen again.

The Other Michael

Intensity, please check your private messages.

thanks,
Michael
MF&P Moderator, First Class

Claudia

HelenM,
Sorry to be long to answer, I was away for the week-end.
I was not precise enough. I should have said that for me, marriage is nothing more than a commercial contract between 2 people who already have a deep commitment and the state. From this point of view, I consider that "to wait until marriage" is close to prostitution ("the commitment is not enough to make me accept sex, let us wait until the contract signature"). Of course, I know that for a lot more persons, marriage has another meaning, and in this case I do not necesserily consider it as close to prostitution. It would depend on the meaning they give to marriage.

I do not consider marriage as necessary to create a family and have kids.

And yes, I am married, and no, I didn't waited, and yes, I was voluntarily pregnant before even asking myself if I wanted to make this contract with the state. But the commitment was official in our families for a long time.

[ November 04, 2002: Message edited by: Claudia ]</p>