Vinnie

Error number two is shorter:

# 2. Mark’s contracts it from the Baptist and fails Marcan Geography 101

Our next error involves the Gospel of Mark and a few apparent Geography errors found within. We start with a passage from chapter 5:

“They went across the lake to the region of the Gerasenes. When Jesus got out of the boat, a man with an evil spirit came from the tombs to meet him . . . 11A large herd of pigs was feeding on the nearby hillside. The demons begged Jesus, "Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them." He gave them permission, and the evil spirits came out and went into the pigs. The herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned.”

Raymond Brown highlights the problem with this account quite well in his Introduction to the NT (p. 134 n. 17) “There is a major geographical problem in Mark’s location of the scene where the pigs can run down the embankment and drown in the sea. Gerasa is a site over thirty miles from the Sea of Galilee, and the alternative reading Gadara is no real help since that is about six miles from the sea.”

On page 160 (n. 83) Brown relays more information on Mark and his confusion of Palestinian geography. “Mark 7:31 describes a journey from Tyre through Sidon to the Sea of Galilee in the midst of the Decapolios. In fact one goes SE from Tyre to the Sea of Galilee; Sidon is N of Tyre, and the description of the Sea of Galilee in the midst of the Decapolis is awkward. That a boat headed for Bethsaida (NE side of the Sea of Galilee) arrives at Gennesaret (NW side 6:45,53) may also signal confusion. No one has been able to locate the Dalmanutha of 8:10, and it may be a corruption of Magdala.”

It seems that Mark clearly betrays confusion of Palestinian Geography. His directions and geographical locations do not seem to be inerrant nor infallible. Though natives of a land sometimes betray confusion about directions in it and I know from experience that Mark can be no worse than any of those map/direction giving companies online ( e.g. mapquest or Expedia ;-) )

The third is whether Jesus declared foods clean or not and the forth is on the VB.

Vinine

Capt_Drakes

I had a debate with someone about the same thing.

He said he got those references from a Josh McDowell, whomever he is.

Plebe

I have a fundy friend whom I think clings to his beliefs out of fears of his mortality and meaning of life. He has been unable to acknowledge openly much of the materials which I have printed out from the following and cannot squirm out of the arguments. I think you will find the following eliminate your need to spend any hard earned dollars on books!:

<a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_wheless/forgery_in_christianity/index.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_wheless/forgery_in_christianity/index.shtml</a>

<a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/m_m_mangasarian/truth_about_jesus.html" target="_blank">http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/m_m_mangasarian/truth_about_jesus.html</a> A Parable and more plain facts about Christianity, you'll like the part about Origen and Celsus.

<a href="http://www.atheists.org/church/" target="_blank">http://www.atheists.org/church/</a>

<a href="http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/maccoby.htm" target="_blank">http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/maccoby.htm</a> This totally blows the NT out of the water in my opinion, it's written by Hyam Maccoby who has authored a number of books you might want to mention to your friend.

Goliath

Bubba,

My favorite example (which is also an example that is literally impossible to counter) is the verse (in Revelations, I think?) which describes a circular pool whose circumference is three times its radius. If this description were accurate, however, then said description would imply that pi=3. Since pi does not equal 3, the aforementioned verse is nonsense.

Even the ancient Greeks had a better approximation for pi than 3.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Vinnie

my mistake, its 28 pages and will probably be 30 by the time im done editing.

ex-preacher

One of the most blatant contradictions occurs in Mark 2:25-26, when Jesus (or Mark) completes garbles the events described in 1 Samuel 21. Jesus makes three stupendous errors:
1. wrong high priest
2. has David entering "the house of God"
3. claims that David shared with his companions

In addition, Jesus implicitly condones David's lie which resulted in the slaughter of the priests at Nob. Even David admitted that he was responsible for the death of the priests (21:22).

There are at least 1,000 clear contradictions in the Bible (most of them found where two or more texts purport to report the same event). Yet, in my experience, it is usually a waste of time to debate these with a True Believer.

They can always use one of the following:

How to Eliminate Contradictions

1. Begin and end with the absolute conviction that the Bible contains no contradictions. What appears to be a contradiction is therefore only a misunderstanding on your part. Any possible explanation for an “apparent discrepancy” must be embraced, regardless of how unlikely it is.

2. When a clear and undeniable contradiction appears, convince yourself that the error has crept in due to careless scribes and could not have been in the original manuscript. Since no original manuscripts have survived no one can prove you wrong. This is the favored method in the dozens of numerical contradictions between Samuel/Kings and Chronicles.

3. Learn to redefine words and phrases. For instance, one passage says that “no man has seen God.” Other passages state that various individuals have seen God, such as Abraham, Hagar, Jacob and Moses. This can be resolved by redefining the word “see.” In the first passage, it must be a literal “seeing,” while in the other passages it must mean a figurative “seeing.” You do not need to prove that the authors intended this. This technique will solve many of the obvious contradictions.

4. Conflate, conflate, conflate. When two or more parallel passages describe an event in contradictory ways, you must assume that they are both (or all) right. For instance, in 1 Samuel 24, God tempts David to conduct a census, while in 1 Chronicles 21, the tempter is Satan. You must therefore conclude that both parties were the cause. Another example involves Peter’s denials of Jesus. Each of the four gospels concurs that there were three denials. However, each one gives a different description of the three denials. Therefore, you must conclude that there were actually between six and nine denials, but that each gospel only tells us about three.

5. Assume hidden facts. When a passage is clearly contradictory to another passage or to known historical or scientific facts, assume that the Bible writers knew these facts, but simply chose not to mention them. For instance, in the clearly contradictory genealogies of Jesus in Matthew and Luke, assume that Luke must actually be giving Mary’s genealogy, even though this is nowhere stated or even implied.

6. Double names. When two (or more) passages give different names for the same person, assume that the person had two (or more) names. This must be done dozens of times in reconciling Samuel/Kings with Chronicles. It is also vital to resolving contradictions in the gospels (Matthew/Levi and Judas/Thaddeus). You do not need any evidence proving that the person actually went by two names.

7. Assume supernatural knowledge. New Testament writers often embellish or re-write Old Testament events. You must always assume that the NT writers had access to secret information and were always correct. For instance, James tells us that Elijah prayed that there be no rain for three years. In the OT account, there is no mention at all of Elijah praying for no rain. In fact, it all appears to be God’s idea. To reconcile this mistake, assume that Elijah actually did pray, James knew this supernaturally, and that the writer of 1 Kings just didn’t mention it.

8. Paraphrase. When two accounts give a clearly different account of the same speech, assume that one or both are paraphrasing. This is an essential method for eliminating the striking differences in the gospels regarding the sayings of Jesus. For instance, Matthew and Luke give obviously different renderings of the “Lord’s Prayer.” To resolve this clear contradiction, you must assume that either Matthew or Luke or both are only giving us a “sense” of Jesus’ words, not the actual words. This technique takes a while to get accustomed to since it means giving a latitude of creativity which would not be tolerated in modern journalism or historical writing. One can soften this inconsistency by telling oneself that ancient writers didn’t have the same standards that we do and that we shouldn’t judge them by our standards of accuracy.

9. Be creative! Many of the contradictions call for uniquely creative solutions. For instance, Genesis 1 and 2 contain two different and “apparently contradictory” accounts of the creation. In one, vegetation is created on the third day and male and female are created simultaneously on the sixth day. In the other, man is created first, then everything else (including vegetation), and finally woman (from man’s rib), all on the same day. How to solve this intractable problem? Easy! Simply assume that the first account is a big picture overview, while the second story “zooms in” on Adam and Eve on the sixth day in the Garden of Eden.

10. When all else fails (although rule #2 usually works when all else fails), tell yourself that someday you’ll understand. Meanwhile you must have more faith. Since you have resolved all the other contradictions, then the remaining unsolved contradictions must also have explanations. After living with this mindset for a few years, your mind will slowly give way to your emotions and the contradictions won’t bother you anymore. In fact, you may conclude that the contradictions are a beautiful reminder of God’s inscrutability and unknowability.


Conclusion: Using these simple rules, you can eliminate every contradiction in the Bible. In fact, using these same rules you can eliminate every contradiction in the Koran, the Book of Mormon, and every book (holy or otherwise) ever written.

NOGO

Excellent list.
However if your IQ is anything above a baboon's your will eventually realize that there are just too many of these issues which are not really answered fully.

Amos

The possibility exists that the bible is errant only because you are interpreting it wrong.

Such as it is with John the Baptist who was a bosom buddy of Christ. John was born from of the old netherworld of the subconscious mind while Christ was born from the recent netherworld into the conscious mind of Joseph. Jesus was the reborn Joseph to which the Christ identity was added and John paved the way for Jesus (a name given to the dual Joseph identity) to complete his mission (the race) through purgatory and into heaven. Therefore also "mother there is your son, and son, there is your mother."

Bible Humper

ex-preacher, that was just too true and too funny.

Both at once. <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

You did forget the Amos method, alas.

10. Identify all biblical events as metaphors of esoteric mental/spiritual phenomena, this makes the entire Bible a surreal dreamscape that requires a dose of mescaline to comprehend, but disqualifies most objections.

P.S. No offense Amos, I actually like reading your apologetic poetry.

RogerLeeCooke

Moreover, John COULD NOT have copied any of the others. He has Jesus arrested BEFORE Passover, NOT eating the Passover meal with his disciples, and hanging on the cross "on the day of preparation" for Passover. All three of the others report that Jesus ate the Passover meal with his disciples and was arrested afterward. (Probably John, the latest of the Gospel writers, realized that the Jews wouldn't have committed sacrilege against the Passover by staging a trial during it.)