Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Milton · 07-30-2003, 01:23 PM

I did not argue about the supernatural expansion...though that is also valid. But I was referring to the continuous existence.

I consider the crusades to be an attack on Christianity from within. Christians, the followers of Jesus Christ, were non-violent, and never attempted to even defend themselves with violence.

The fact that you are attempting to hold all labeled Christians guilty of the crusades is proof that the crusades were an attack on Christianity, the true teachings of Christ. False doctrines were the ones that caused it, not Christ's teachings.

Amaranth · 07-30-2003, 01:52 PM

Has anyone seen a True Scotsman about? Oh, nevermind - Milton brought one.

rfwu · 07-30-2003, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Milton
The fact that you are attempting to hold all labeled Christians guilty of the crusades is proof that the crusades were an attack on Christianity, the true teachings of Christ. False doctrines were the ones that caused it, not Christ's teachings.

Obviously, there are many individual Christians out there who are very nice people. However, we are attacking the assumption that ALL Christians were good, or even the establishment and very core of Christianity is not all that it seems.

Milton · 07-30-2003, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amaranth
Has anyone seen a True Scotsman about? Oh, nevermind - Milton brought one.

If that is all you can say then just don't say anything. If you can prove to me that Jesus said to go out and kill the Muslims, then I will accept that I was wrong. But just ignoring the point, and making a statement like that only goes against your own argument. (Though you might think you are right.)

Can you please show me where it says that Christ followers must kill Muslims or anyone who is not a Christian?

Quote:

Obviously, there are many individual Christians out there who are very nice people. However, we are attacking the assumption that ALL Christians were good, or even the establishment and very core of Christianity is not all that it seems.

I will accept that there are some who are called Christians, and are pure evil incarnate. But are their ways the ways prescribed by Christ? No. And that is my point. I think the number of people labeling themselves as Christians range in the billion, probably. But out all those, I doubt 70% of them even know the first three commandments.

It is not what they claim to be, but what they really are. Especially in Christianity, we are supposed to live what we preach. And we are supposed to preach what Christ preached. So, if we are not doing that, then are we worthy of the name of Christ?

The most important thing to know, from the Gospels, is that you are not born into Christianity by natural birth. It is not possible. This is the problem with Amarath, who thinks that anyone born into a so-called Christian family, is also a Christian. That is just not true.

Mageth · 07-30-2003, 03:22 PM

Can you please show me where it says that Christ followers must kill Muslims or anyone who is not a Christian?

Luke 19: 26-27 (KJV, Jesus speaking: ) For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me.

Mageth · 07-30-2003, 03:30 PM

And then there's Exodus 22:

18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

20 He that sacrificeth unto [any] god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

If you believe the first three commandments should be known and followed by Christians, why not these two? After all, they are part of the same Law, and Jesus said the Law shall not pass away (From Matthew 5):

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Milton · 07-30-2003, 03:50 PM

Out of context.

Mageth · 07-30-2003, 03:51 PM

Out of context.

How?

Jayjay · 07-30-2003, 04:02 PM

It's a parable where Jesus compares himself to a king who goes away and says those things after he comes back.

EDIT: referring to Luke 19:26-27 here.

Milton · 07-30-2003, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mageth
Out of context.

How?

Where did you pull out that passage? From a longer story, wasn't it? Yes, the story was a parable, too.

To make the story short, it is an analogy of the day of judgment. The king is the one who is delivering judgment, as if it was God. Those who were his enemies, are like those who did not believe. Those excecuting their due punishment, are like the angels throwning the evil ones in the eternal fire.

So there you have it.

As for the laws in exodus, you know well that with Christ the death penalties ended...at least at the hands of other sinners, who are equally deserving of death.

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07-30-2003, 01:23 PM	#41
Milton Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Atlanta,GA,USA Posts: 172	I did not argue about the supernatural expansion...though that is also valid. But I was referring to the continuous existence. I consider the crusades to be an attack on Christianity from within. Christians, the followers of Jesus Christ, were non-violent, and never attempted to even defend themselves with violence. The fact that you are attempting to hold all labeled Christians guilty of the crusades is proof that the crusades were an attack on Christianity, the true teachings of Christ. False doctrines were the ones that caused it, not Christ's teachings.

07-30-2003, 01:52 PM	#42
Amaranth Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kansas City Posts: 279	Has anyone seen a True Scotsman about? Oh, nevermind - Milton brought one.

07-30-2003, 03:22 PM	#45
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Can you please show me where it says that Christ followers must kill Muslims or anyone who is not a Christian? Luke 19: 26-27 (KJV, Jesus speaking: ) For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me.

07-30-2003, 03:30 PM	#46
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	And then there's Exodus 22: 18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. 20 He that sacrificeth unto [any] god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed. If you believe the first three commandments should be known and followed by Christians, why not these two? After all, they are part of the same Law, and Jesus said the Law shall not pass away (From Matthew 5): 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

07-30-2003, 03:50 PM	#47
Milton Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Atlanta,GA,USA Posts: 172	Out of context.

07-30-2003, 03:51 PM	#48
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Out of context. How?

07-30-2003, 04:02 PM	#49
Jayjay Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 6,261	It's a parable where Jesus compares himself to a king who goes away and says those things after he comes back. EDIT: referring to Luke 19:26-27 here.

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