Fr.Andrew

(yguy): Where's your evidence for that?
(Fr Andrew): I take Gen 18:23 to be the starting point of the negotiations. "And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?"

(yguy): A strictly literalistic interpretation could support that view...
(Fr Andrew): If you mean "that's what it seems to say", then we're on the same page.

(yguy): He didn't screw up any more than does a dad who gives his son a car only to have the kid get drunk and wrap it around a power pole.
(Fr Andrew): If the dad created the son to wrap his car around a power pole--then you'd have an analogy.

(yguy): Of course, some see the restoration of the nation of Israel as supporting the idea, but I doubt that you do.
(Fr Andrew): Consider your doubts confirmed.

yguy

One could possibly infer that God wanted to kill everybody and Abraham talked him out of it, but I don't see why one would. Abraham was not in a position to negotiate anything, and there is no indication that that God intended to kill innocent people, only that the question arose in Abraham's mind.

No, we're not. The part you left out explains why.

No, then I'd have a nearly perfect analogy - no doubt the first in the history of language.

Kosh

It is obvious from the reading of the passage that God intended to kill them all, but then had to negotiate with Abraham.

I think it's time to invoke the 10 run rule, in favor of Fr.Andrew.....:notworthy

Fr.Andrew

(yguy): One could possibly infer that God wanted to kill everybody and Abraham talked him out of it, but I don't see why one would.
(Fr Andrew): I really don't see how one could read the passage and come away with any other interpretation of it, but the world's a funny place.

(yguy): "Abraham was not in a position to negotiate anything..."
(Fr Andew): Yet scripture has him doing so. Quite effectively.

(yguy): "...there is no indication that that God intended to kill innocent people, only that the question arose in Abraham's mind."
(Fr Andrew): What do you think God meant when He said "...If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes." That certainly seems to indicate that it was God's intention to destroy "all the place", but that He will reconsider (change His mind) if fifty righteous men can be found.

Fr.Andrew

(Fr Andrew): What's the "10 run rule"?

keyser_soze

No more than 10 runs allowed in an inning. If it occurs, the inning is closed.

keyser_soze

It's a "sporty" way of saying, "one lad, has trounced another, let's call it quits before embarrassment sets in".

A definite complement to you. You boxed him in tightly, he found no escape, so the gentlemanly thing to do is for him to either a)admit defeat and walk away, or b)cowardly-quietly walk away without admitting defeat. The gentlemanly thing for you to do, is to a) politely accept his treaty, or if he fails to do the honorable thing....b)laugh and make sport of him for failing to admit error in thought or deed.

It is always best to be honorable, and admit when you are in error. Everyone sees both sides as it is world viewable here, and if you fail to be honest, your reputation is besmirched.

Fr.Andrew

(Fr Andrew): Gotcha. Thanks. And you, Kosh. I tend to beat dead horses if I don't keep a careful eye on myself.

keyser_soze

I don't think it was a comment on your "dead horse beating", so much a remark on your ability, and a subtle hint to yguy to quit before it got more embarrassing.

Kosh

in amateur softball/baseball.... if a team is up by 10 runs and trouncing the other team, they call the game over.

At least in baseball, people know when to save face....