Rational BAC

BINGO

I think you got it right for the most part.

There are also personal experiences in anyone's lifetime which can turn any atheist or agnostic or very weak Christian into a "true believer". ===there really is something out there.

Problem is a "believer" in what? If you were raised Christian then you will probably end up believing in Christianity and Jesus--------however with a very skeptical mind about the whole thing ---and end up picking and choosing what you like and don't like about the Bible. Most end up considering the OT as a sometimes beautifully written fairy tale and throw almost all of it out. Most end up very critically appraising the NT and throw quite a bit of it out too.

And you are exactly right about the Fundies. I have noticed that the most rabid atheists were one-time Fundies. "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" comes to mind-------just have to replace the last part with "like a man disillusioned".

Liberal cherry picking Christian's faith is not bothered at all about all the silly debates between Fundies and atheists about the errancy or inerrancy of the Bible. "So what? Big deal! A liberal's faith is not based on proving or disproving Genesis anyway" "or proving or disproving specific passages of the New Testament either"

We can read all those very passionate "number of angels on the head of a pin" arguments between atheists and Fundies and enjoy it as the entertainment value it is for us------but of no real consequence to our faith.

snoiduspoitus

Liberals accept the 'figurative' resurrection of Jesus, while fundies demand a 'literal' resurrection.

Actually, it's a big step to take. Admitting only to 'spiritual resurrection' is but a half-step away from admitting to no resurrection, but at least there's a screen in the door.

Rational BAC

Don't know about that one. Think you are just flapping your gums.

I do accept the "literal" resurrection of Jesus. But I am still probably about as liberal a Christian as you can get.

I also accept the "literal" semi-Godness of Jesus. Born of God and the virgin Mary.

It seems you really do not know or understand liberal Christians. You just think you do. And make up stories about us. To your misunderstanding.

Milton

I know you said "figurative", but if by 'fig' you mean what you wrote above ("spiritual"), then you are actually talking about the Jehovah's Witnesses' view of the resurrection.

literal? Again, do you mean that you believe that the Jesus description in the fundy's literature is real? That that Jesus actually existed?

Taking into consideration the fact that Jesus is never said to have written any documents--documents we would compare with those of the Gospels, from which we could reach a conclusion on whether he could have said those things attributed to him--how can you not think that any of it is true? How can you claim that something is part of Jesus' character, yet another thing is not? As far as you know, you don't know anything about Jesus.

semi-Godness? Born of a virgin? Do you believe all the miracles attributed to Jesus? Every single one of them?

Rational BAC

Yep-----

Talking I guess about what I believe with no rational reason for it. Have no intention of trying to explain any of that stuff rationally. It is pure and simply FAITH. Not explainable in any kind of rational way and no sense trying to.

All those miracles? Sure. Why not? A semigod could easily do that.

Virgin birth of intermixed God and man (or actually woman) Sure --why not?

Resurrection of a semigod? Sure. Why not?

All of these things are in my core beliefs as a Christian.

Now of course the rest of Christianity is definitely up for grabs and debateable. State anything you want about the rest of it and I will consider it very rationally. You can demolish rationally the rest of Christianity and I can easily agree with you.

But it does not stop me from being an incorruptibly believing Christian---------as far as very core beliefs.


That is the problem for atheists as far as debating liberal cherry picking Christians. We agree with you over 90% of the time. (Very little shocks us as it shocks the Fundies and makes them overly defensive.) And as far as the other 10% we are unassailable. --------Hey it is just irrational belief--buy the concept or not ------we do not really care.

Immaculate Deception

From my (very) liberal Christian sister, I've gathered that the thought of being unconditionally loved and accepted by a god is what keeps her believing. She puts emphasis on the philosophy of Jesus and credits the "Spirit" with a lot of decisions she's made. Her goal is to have a "personal relationship with God." She rejects nearly everything in the bible. She also has decided to go to Angola this fall as a missionary. I found that out yesterday morning.

ID

Pyrrho

They must just be making up what they want, because if they follow what Jesus supposedly said according to the New Testament, they would be believing (supposedly Jesus speaking, King James translation):

So Jesus explicitly endorses absolutely all of the horrendous laws of the Old Testament, which should be completely and absolutely followed "Till heaven and earth pass" and "till all be fulfilled" (emphasis added).

If you want to read more of the evil that Jesus endorses, according to the Bible, you can glean quite a bit from the New Testament section of:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty.html

Taking a look at Bertrand Russell's essay "Why I am Not a Christian" is also a good idea. In it, he describes flaws in Jesus' character, teachings, and morals.

BadBadBad

You believe all the miracles? Even Jesus casting those nasty demons into the 2000 pigs and sending them into a demon crazed charge over the cliff? So you don't base your core beliefs on rational thought just faith. OTH, you look at the rest of the Bible with rational thought to conclude what not to believe in.

RBAC, surely you can see the comedy in that. As a rational person, surely you have to rule out the pig story. Have you ever seen a demon possessed pig? Does the concept of a demon crazed pig make sense to you rationally? Use the same standard you use for all the rest you throw out. Does it change your basic belief structure if you write off that story to myth? If not, then rationality takes over, and you throw that out. So, think about that rationally, and let me know if you really do believe the pig story.

Milton

I agree with your point, Brett.

RBAC,

If you think that you can discard all those other areas because of your ability to rationalize things, then why not rationalize the whole thing away?

You say that the only things you hold to, you hold to them by faith. Well, why not the rest?

BTW, I am not an atheist. I am actually a fundamentalist. Not the typical one...nevertheless, a fundy.

Rational BAC

I kind of like the pig story. Jesus must have had a hell of sense of humor.