Mark_Chid

I AM working class - I assure you I am describing it with complete accuracy. Not all of the working class are stupid but a high percentage of them are ignorant, which is far worse.

The mass hysteria over the Holly & Jessica case was characterised as a 'white, middle class' phenomena - thats simply untrue. The British middle classes do not scream at police vans containing accused killers, travel miles to place more flowers on a huge stinking pile of rotting bouquets to honour a dead princess or form mobs to attack 'perverts' - these are totally working class activities.

Born Free

Okay, I was horrified that someone might actually think I'm that dumb because I'm not of the upper classes. There are a lot of less than intelligent people out there who might think it you never know!!

It is true in a way that you can accuse the middle class of lots of things but acting common is not one of them.

Look on it as me putting my hand up and saying "hey I'm not that stupid honest" more to reassure myself than anything else.

Mark_Chid

You're a Scot, too, and you lot seem less dreadful than us Sassenachs in this respect.

echidna

Alli, to be fair my opening post was quite self-deprecating since I am probably middle class myself. However, criticising a general trait of my own class does not necessarily extend the generalisation to all members of that group.

My partner is working class & the reason I love her is because she is far wiser at living than all the middle class educated people I know, and me.

Hmmm, if this is patronising … well … tough.

The Other Michael

I don't think any particular group (socio/economic, religious, etc) has a monopoly on either wisdom or stupidity.

But stereotypes sure do save a lot of thinking when trying to evaluate people.

cheers,
Michael

Mark_Chid

trouble is a lot of stereotypes ARE true! Parisians are mostly rude, the Scots are mostly careful with money, Samoans tend to eat a lot etc

As long as you don't use them to prejudge INDIVIDUALS its perfectly valid to make statements about groups if they happen to be true!

case

I'm not sure I can agree with this statement. Although I see the usefullness (indeed the necessity) of utilizing stereotypes when making statements about groups of people, I think that we run the risk of misusing them more easily then we realize. There is a fine line between making generalizing statements about a group of people (Somaons eat alot of food) and making over-generalizing statements about large groups of people (the working class works itself into hysteria easily, are ignorant, ect...). There is a fundamental difference in these statements, and I think a faliure to recognize this can rapidly send an argument on a downward spiral.

I agree with Michael; I don't think ANY socio-economic group holds a monopoly on stupidity or wisdom. I know I, for one, am very working class, and am well aware that I am ignorant in many areas. Does this mean that I'm going to mob a van containing suspected criminals? Doubtful. There are complex factors involved in how these things spin out of control; trying to pass blame off to one particular group is oversimplifying the issue at best.

Mark_Chid

Mon hysteria in Britain IS a purely working class phenomenon. Thats a fact. It only implies that the majority of the working class is stupid if you don'y understand logic.

All Great Danes are dogs. This does not imply that most dogs are Great Danes!

case

Forgive me, but I don't understand your analogy. Are you stating that all working class Englishmen are stupid, but not all stupid people are working class Englishmen? Somehow, I don't quite see how this fits into the argument; maybe I'm missing something.

Also, I think I might need to see some verifiable proof before I grant all mass hysteria is caused by the working class a fact. Maybe it would help if I were English; I don't know. But I doubt that all English, working class or otherwise, would agree with this statement.

Allow me, if you will, an analogy of my own: All southern white Americans are racists. I can think of plenty of people who would agree with this statement, and I think most Americans would grant that this has become a stereotype. But would all southern Americans (or any Americans), black or white, agree with this statement? I doubt it.

[ August 28, 2002: Message edited by: case ]</p>

echidna

Oooo, I don’t think you’re gonna get much support for this. I won’t speak for Britain, but it depends entirely on your subjective definitions of “hysteria” & “working class”.

When you say “fact”, maybe you mean fact according to your own subjective assessment, but it’s certainly not an objective fact.